THE MEDIATORIAL SERVICE OF CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT (3)
[p. 158] THE MEDIATORIAL SERVICE OF CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT (3)
Revelation 2: 12 - 29; Revelation 3: 1 - 6
JT It might be worthy of notice that the addresses to the assemblies may be taken to be historical as well as prophetical. That is to say, we can reckon historically from the letter to the assembly at Ephesus to the fifth one; we reckon the time that has elapsed. It is a question, however, of spiritual understanding, that the historical matter becomes clear after we come to Philadelphia, because the letter to that assembly is so definite that it is clear that the Lord meant, in that letter, to convey that He was thinking of the assembly as a whole. Laodicea, however, ends up the matter, and the Lord is seen there as spewing the whole public assembly out of His mouth. Hence it becomes very serious and solemn when we come to Laodicea. At the same time it is clearly helpful and instructive to keep the historical matter in mind. We can tell pretty well where we are, as we proceed from the first, and especially from Thyatira to the end; because Thyatira is collateral in time with the last three, so that we are now in the midst of it. Therefore we can discern that Sardis treats of the period of the Reformation. Thyatira, however, is earlier and runs collaterally with Sardis, the Romish system being now current and will be current to the end. We may thus reckon where we are at any given time, but especially now as we come to Pergamos, and then also when we come to Thyatira, because Jezebel points to a historical condition which is running its course. The later part of the book contemplates her in a political sense, where she is seen as the woman that rides the beast; but here in chapter 2 she is seen purely ecclesiastically. It is well to notice all this, as I believe it will clarify what we are now about to speak [p. 159] of.
SMcC Is that what Mr. Darby had in mind when he referred to the protracted scale in this book?
JT I would say that. Things are extended, so that any student of the book of Revelation can gather up, from time to time, where he is, where we are, ecclesiastically, to use that word. When we come to the political side it becomes also obvious because the woman that rides the beast is no less than Jezebel, so that, from the political standpoint, the position is changing.
AJG Would it be right to regard Thyatira as the last of the first four, and therefore the climax in the development of evil in the professing body, but also the first of the last four, being the first one that goes right through to the end?
JT Quite so. She takes on another character from the standpoint of the Roman empire; that is, she rides the beast, which refers to the Roman empire.
JAP Do you regard Pergamos as a past phase?
JT It is, from the standpoint from which we are speaking, as are also Ephesus and Smyrna. Thyatira, however, continues to the end.
CMM Is the lamp withdrawn with Thyatira?
JT I would think so. The Lord does not recognise the ecclesiastical position any more. Then we can readily see that Thyatira involves instruction as to the final state of things; I mean to say, final in the sense of iniquity, and we can see where we are. So that what you get in verse 24 of chapter 2 is: “But to you I say, the rest who are in Thyatira”. The word ‘rest’ there is synonymous with the word ‘remnant’ and it is something that God has secured for Himself in that stage of the history of the assembly. The word ‘rest’ implies that we have come to remnant times, which become most interesting for us, and, of course, ought to be compared with first Timothy, and second Timothy particularly, as regards [p. 160] the remnant.
AED Is the thought of the remnant carried over in the fact that in the last four the overcomer is referred to before the word, “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says”?
JT Quite so. There is a change as to the position of the overcomer. Then the Lord eases the pressure upon us, as He says in verse 24. “But to you I say, the rest who are in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I do not cast upon you any other burden; but what ye have hold fast till I shall come”. That is to say, from the Lord’s point of view, there is some relief for us from the remnant standpoint; so that the Lord eases the burden. We all know how He speaks of the burden Himself in Matthew 11: “Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; ... and ye shall find rest to your souls”, and I believe there is a reference in that to the letter to Thyatira.
RWS Does the expression, “as they say” represent the saints being accused?
JT “As they say”, would refer to what the opposers were saying; the Lord is assuring the godly, or faithful, amongst the saints that He knows.
RWS “The depths of God” would be known amongst the saints, in a sense; are they being accused of knowing “the depths of Satan”?
JT Just so. It is over against that point.
FCH Would you say a word as to what is hidden and secret in relation to Pergamos as over against the public side earlier?
J.T. To quote Mr. Darby:-
‘Called by that secret name
Of undisclosed delight
(Blest answer to reproach and shame),
Graved on the stone of white’. (79:4)
I think that is a pretty good answer to [p. 161] your inquiry.
FCH Does it not speak in John’s gospel of the Lord Himself going up in secret?
JT Quite so. As we had it last night: “He hid himself”. That is, He did not expose Himself outwardly; and why should we expose ourselves and give an advantage to the devil. In all these matters we are actually in contact with the devil; so here, “I know where thou dwellest, where the throne of Satan is; and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in the days in which Antipas my faithful witness was, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells”. So that we do well to take notice of these features, because we are in direct conflict with the devil. The Lord is aware of that, and He puts it into His letters from time to time, that they were having direct conflict with the devil.
JC-S Do you think that is why He introduces Himself as the One with the sharp two-edged sword, the idea of conflict being in view?
JT Very good. We have already had the idea of the word of God in Hebrews 4, where it is said to be “sharper than any two-edged sword, and penetrating to the division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart”.
AJG Is it significant that in Pergamos there are those who hold the doctrine of Balaam and hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, apparently not yet openly teaching it, but holding it secretly? Does that bring into evidence the necessity for the sharp two-edged sword?
JT Quite so, I would say that fully, because Pergamos, in the history of it as in the letter, involves that the Romish system had already begun; the public assembly had become degenerate. One can see that the degeneration was there in the days [p. 162] of the celebrated emperor Constantine. That is where the thing began, I believe.
PL So that the detective power of the word is found in the sharp two-edged sword?
JT Quite so. It is a question of the word, and that is what exposes in the ministry.
JC-S Was Balaam compelled to express the word of God?
JT Quite so. So that we have here the doctrine of Balaam. As was just said, the doctrine may be there and not openly expressed, and so also in Thyatira it may not be openly expressed, but usually it is perverted things in Thyatira. I am not sure whether we can apply the idea of perversion, or perverted things, in Pergamos; things are hidden rather.
Rem In the record of the killing of the kings of Midian it is said that Balaam was slain by the sword.
JT Showing that the idea would be there, aimed against him.
PL Would Phinehas illustrate all this?
JT He would, indeed; he lived at the same time as Balaam.
CMM Would you spare us a word as to Joshua 5, the man with his sword drawn in his hand.
JT The drawn sword is there for it is a time of conflict. Joshua had been the leader at that time, but the man with the drawn sword would undoubtedly be some allusion to the Spirit of God, because the Spirit of God is seen secretly in such instances in the Old Testament. It would be some allusion to the Spirit Himself.
AED Would that link more with the word, “the sword of the Spirit, which is God’s word”?
JT Well, we have alluded to the word of God already, as mentioned in Hebrews 4.
WSS Is it significant, in connection with what we have been saying about the word of God, that in [p. 163] these three assemblies we have first God Himself in relation to the word; and then the Son, and then the Spirit? It says in chapter 2, verse 12. “And to the angel of the assembly in Pergamos write: These things says he that has the sharp two-edged sword”; this has the word of God in mind. Then in verse 18, “These things says the Son of God”. And then in chapter 3, verse 1, “To the angel of the assembly in Sardis write: These things saith he that has the seven Spirits of God”.
JT All that is quite instructive, I am thankful you mentioned it, because it opens up much.
WSS I was thinking of what you were speaking of in connection with the truth historically, as to the order in which it is opened up in the days of recovery in which we are privileged to have part.
JT Quite so. So that we have first of all the idea of the Word of God, which is most important to keep before us. Then the Son of God, which is, of course, the Lord. He is not so described in chapter 1, but still it is a most precious presentation of Him. That is to say, the allusion is to the house, for the Son of God is over the house of God. He that built all things is God, but Christ is Son over the house. Therefore the word to Thyatira points to the Lord’s authority over the house, and points to what He says as to Jezebel, and all the terribleness of her conduct. She aims at being the word herself; as some say, ‘The church says so-and-so’. She claims to have the voice of God; whereas it is just an apostate reference. She is an apostate; she is in an apostate condition; it is a woman. Then the Spirit of God in chapter 3 points to the Spirit in power in all that He implies. It is “the seven Spirits of God”, showing that we have full power now to deal with the doctrines that are set out, not only in Thyatira but since the Reformation.
WC Would the reference to the Son of God and His eyes as a flame of fire suggest His resentment as to the bondage of Thyatira, the saints being brought into the bondage of Romanism; the Son of God stands for liberty?
JT It is the spiritual power of the word, the Son of God coming in; that is, the authority of Christ as Son over the house. He has full authority over the house, and that is challenged by the conduct of Thyatira, by Jezebel.
DJM “She who calls herself prophetess”. Is that the church?
JT That is true. That is just the idea, and it is over against the word and the authority of the Son of God.
JC-S Who shall speak after the Son?
JT Just so.
PL Have you all the divine Persons taking up the issue militantly? The Word [p. 164] of God, and the Son of God, and the Spirit of God.
JT Very good. We must not overlook the man with the drawn sword, for I believe the allusion is to the Spirit, how the sword of the Lord is used.
FJF Is that seen in the Lord as Son supporting Martin Luther, when he stuck to the word and faced the whole of the conflict?
JT Quite so, ‘Here I stand; I can do no other’, he said, I believe that is the idea. He stood out, and that introduces Sardis, but it really comes in in Thyatira, because it is a question of Rome’s authority, Rome’s claims; Luther stood out against it. He says, ‘I can do no other’. He was a real martyr. He failed, alas, in the doctrine, but at that time, he was a real martyr.
HFN Is there any link between the thoughts in chapter l, “the seven Spirits which are before his throne” (verse 4) and becoming “in the Spirit on the Lord’s day” (verse 10) and then what you have referred to this morning, “He that has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars” (chapter 3: l) and then in chapter 4, “Immediately I became in the Spirit; and behold, a throne stood in the heaven”? Is there a link between those references to the Spirit?
JT I think there is. Perhaps you could enlarge on it for us.
HFN Well, one was only thinking of the Spirit in all the plenitude of His power, as suggested in the expression “seven Spirits which are before his throne”, maintaining the rights of the throne, and then, in regard to privilege, how we become in the Spirit on the Lord’s day. Then there is what you have referred to, the fulness of power, and then, finally, how we become in the Spirit and are caught up into heaven and get a vision of the throne. But I would like some help from you in regard to that.
JT The only thing to be said immediately is that chapter 4 refers to the things that shall be after these. We are now dealing with things that are. But what you say is very touching, especially the becoming in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, as John does. He says, “I became in the Spirit on the Lord’s day”. It opens up much to us as regards the service of God.
SMcC In regard to the man in Joshua, that you have referred to, he says, “For as captain of the army of Jehovah am I now come”. Would it be a suggestion, in a hidden way, of the Spirit in regard to a certain phase of things?
JT I would think so, I felt that we should not pass it by without commenting on it, because the Spirit is in the conflict too, and it was an opportune time in Joshua’s day. Joshua represents the conflict, we might say, and the Spirit of God comes in there. He appeared there to him and said to him, “Loose thy sandal from off thy foot”. I believe it [p. 166] was the Lord the Spirit there, in authority, in the conflict.
FJF Is that why you could worship Him?
JT Quite so; why not? As we often say, the Spirit is to be worshipped, for the Spirit of God is God Himself, in a certain sense.
JTJr Is not that the force of the word of God in Hebrews, that “all things are naked and laid bare to his eyes, with whom we have to do”? Is that not really the Spirit?
JT Well, I would go with that.
AM-h When David went down to Ahimelech he asked for a sword, and Ahimelech said, It is wrapped in a cloth. What would you say about that?
JT You would wonder about wrapping the sword in a cloth, I would say that it ought to be in use at that time. Of course, David was ready to use it, in time.
AM-h I was thinking how we need to be in possession of the idea of the sword.
JT It does not seem in keeping with the idea of the conflict for the sword to be wrapped in a cloth; it is not in action. If we wrap up the word of God in a cloth, it fails in its power.
Ques Does Paul use the sword in Acts 13 against the man who tried to hinder the deputy from hearing the word of God?
JT I would say so. He was, however, a type of the Jew, and so the judgment was to be for a season; meaning that the Jew would come to light again, I would think, in time, in the millennium.
Rem At that point it says, “But Saul, who also is Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixing his eyes upon him, said, O full of all deceit and all craft”, I was thinking of his name, Paul, and his being “filled with the Holy Spirit”.
JT Quite so. The word there is, “Thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt [p. 167] thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?” A certain man in America, who was a circus man, wrote over here to Spurgeon and offered to hire him, and Spurgeon in replying quoted that verse, “Thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?” I have often thought of that, and I would say that it is only right that we should bring Spurgeon into Sardis. I do not want to enlarge on that, but I just felt that it was a good opportunity to suggest that there was a faithful man, in that matter, in Spurgeon. He refused the subtleties of the devil to turn his services into devilish work; that is, into circus work.
ECB Would the word fit in, “Behold his couch, Solomon’s own, threescore mighty men are about it, of the mighty of Israel. They all hold the sword, experts in war; each hath his sword upon his thigh because of alarm in the nights”, Song of Songs 3: 8?
JT Your suggestion is that the sword is there to be used, and it was to be used in relation to Solomon, which would be in relation to Christ. The word of God would defend the Lord Jesus, when attacks are made upon Him.
Ques Is it not remarkable that in the address to Thyatira all the assemblies are referred to: “All the assemblies shall know that I am he that searches the reins and the hearts”?
JT It is remarkable. It indicates that the Lord would have the situation that has arisen in regard to Rome, which is Jezebel, made known to all the assemblies. Does it not suggest that God has worked in the Reformation and that things have become known? Rome has been exposed, so that it no longer has the power it used to have. As a matter of fact, it is courting the sympathies of Protestantism, and we have to watch that. The brethren may not [p. 168] know that; but it is true, that Rome is courting the sympathies of Protestantism. In fact, they are claiming that they are the first church and all the other denominations belong to it, which is a remarkable thing, I do not believe the brethren know about that, but that is the truth.
JC-S Is that the object in bringing out a new version, to try and make a kind of affiliation?
JT Quite so. An English version of the New Testament was published four years ago. It is a subtle matter and we have to watch it.
PL Are they not claiming that Protestant believers are the soul of the church, if not the body?
JT Well, that is exactly what a man said to me on the Atlantic. He was a monk, and he spoke to me about Rome and so forth, and then he spoke to me about my soul, and I said, ‘What would you think about me?’ I spoke to him as a monk. I told him that I was converted in Ireland. He was an Irish monk, and he said to me, ‘How did you become converted?’ I told him, and he said, ‘Were your father and mother christians, Protestants?’ I said, ‘Yes’, and I went on and told him my history, and I said, ‘Now, where would you place me?’ I am sure he did not know what to say, because ordinarily he would say I was a heretic, but he did not say that. He said, ‘You belong to the soul of the church’. It was a remarkable thing, but that is what they claim, and I think he was forced to say it. He did not know what to say. But now they are coming down toward Protestantism, because of communism. We might feel there was not much to choose between communism and Romanism, but I would rather have Romanism than communism. Communism is out-and-out infidelity. Rome, of course, is infidel too, in a way; but, at the same time, it is not out-and-[p. 169] out infidelity.
WSS Do you not feel that these movements which are taking place form a kind of dark background against which the truth of the Holy Spirit is shining out?
JT I would say that, fully. The Holy Spirit is working and the Spirit is calling attention to Himself, and the brethren are coming to it. Only the Spirit is not wishing to make everything of Himself. He wishes us to accept the truth as it is in the New Testament, I would say. At the same time the truth of the Spirit is in the Old Testament too, but it is not so definite as it is in the New; we must keep with the New Testament, at the same time recognising the Old as Scripture. Therefore it is the Old and New Testament properly, but at the same time we must recognise the precedence of the New Testament.
Ques Would you say that the understanding we have that God holds the balance of power and arranges matters, for instance, in regard of Roman Catholicism and communism, would leave us free to pursue what really belongs to us and not be too occupied with what sways men at the present time?
JT Not too occupied, but it is not wrong to have some light as to what is current, because we are afforded light in the government of God as to certain things, and it is quite right to pursue what we have in the way of light. It may be dim but still it is light in its own self.
Ques Do not prophetic scriptures clearly show that all is working according to God’s plan, and He holds the balance of power in His own hand, and we are to be aware of that?
JT Well, He does, but then there is the government of God, too.
Ques Could we have a word as to the way in which the Spirit is spoken of in this book: “the seven Spirits of God” or “the Spirit”, and not “the Holy Spirit”, or “the Spirit of Christ”, or “the Spirit of Jesus”?
JT Well, the “seven Spirits of God” is, you might say, a symbolical reference. The whole of the book of Revelation, in measure, is symbolical, and the term seven is just that. The understanding lies in the numeral seven; that is just a question of the fulness of the Spirit, I would say.
Rem And then “the Spirit” would be that Person in deity, in contrast to the seven Spirits, “What the Spirit says to the assemblies”, is that a reference to His deity?
JT Quite so. It is the Spirit of God that we are dealing with. The Spirit of God is a divine Person; He is one of the three divine Persons; He is God Himself. So that “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says”, is an allusion to the Spirit of God.
AJG Would you say that He is presented as “the seven Spirits of God” in an assuring way, because of the power of the opposition to the truth?
JT Just so. It is the fulness of the Spirit. It is a peculiar term and it is not found in the epistles. It is really symbolical of the power of the Spirit in the sense in which it is used in the book of Revelation. It is without doubt the Spirit, it is just a symbolical reference and it implies fulness; the fulness of the Spirit. We ought to keep to the idea of a symbolical thing when we are dealing with symbolical scriptures such as Ezekiel. There are terms such as, ‘seraphim’. What is a seraph? Is it a being? I do not think it is; I think it is a symbol. Take Isaiah 6, or any passage that treats of the seraphim, and the cherubim. What are they? Are they beings, or are they symbols? I should like the brethren to say now; what do you think; Mr. G.?
AJG I would say they are symbols.
JT Well, quite so. What do you [p. 171] think, Mr. L.?
PL Surely.
FCH The seraphim are not mentioned, are they, apart from the symbolic reference in Isaiah 6, where the holiness of God is asserted thrice, probably involving the Trinity? I cannot recall any other reference.
JT Well then, we may as well leave it, and look into it, and see what the words ‘seraph’ and ‘cherub’ mean, whether they are beings or whether they are symbols.
HW Would it be right to suggest that they may have been symbolic of divine attributes?
JT Well, quite so; they are symbols.
Ques Is there anything to learn that one of them flew with a live coal from the altar (Isaiah 6: 6)? I thought the cherubim were symbolic of the rights of God; whereas the seraph, while still containing that idea, had a peculiar touch of grace in this scripture in the fact that one of the seraphim flew unto him (that is, unto Isaiah) and he had in his hand a glowing coal which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar. I wondered whether that showed that, intermingled with the rights of God, there was a peculiar sense of grace towards the prophet.
JT There are the rights of God, but there is the holiness of God too, and the cherub and seraph are used in those connections; so that I would advise the brethren to look into it themselves, because I believe many think they are just beings.
HFN Did you not refer, some years ago, to the seraphim and link them with John’s gospel, and the cherubim with the other three gospels?
JT Well, there are certain links in which all that is true.
Now I think we might as well go on with our scripture, for we have not much time and we have not fully covered Thyatira. We have alluded to much [p. 172] that is very important for us to understand, and now we have this matter of the burden. The Lord says in verse 24. “I do not cast upon you any other burden; but what ye have hold fast till I shall come”. The Lord is saying that He is not overburdening the saints; which I think is very touching and it ought to affect us; it suggests that things are not quite so heavy as they might be. There was much persecution at the time of the Reformation, of course, but then that has subsided. Although it went on after Thyatira, Protestantism implies that it was not so severe; there was some lightening of it.
PHH Could you liken the voice of the Son of God here at all to Solomon’s remarks on coming to the throne, in meeting the heavy opposition centring in Adonijah and so on? I was thinking of Solomon in the way he suggests the Son and the way he causes these opposers like Adonijah, Joab and Shimei to be dealt with. Would this result in the lightening of the burden for the saints?
JT Very good. Perhaps you would enlarge on that, so as to make it clear for us.
PHH It says that Nathan the prophet came in and exposed the position. Would that be, in a certain way, like the position being made clear to us in the Lord’s address to Thyatira? Then the position of these opposers, each one in his own turn is made clear to Solomon-the Son, as we might say-and he causes each one to be dealt with, and the saints are eased of what might otherwise have been a great apostate burden.
JT Quite so. David had exposed the position generally, although he was tardy in dealing with it, but, in due time, Nathan the prophet, we might say, is the instrument that God used to expose the whole position. Hence Joab is brought into judgment, and others who are secretly opposed to Solomon, I suppose you have in mind that in Thyatira there is a [p. 173] secrecy in opposition to Christ. Perhaps you would enlarge further on that.
PHH It says that “Zadok the priest, and Nathan the prophet, and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada ... went down, and caused Solomon to ride upon king David’s mule”, 1 Kings 1: 38. Would those elements, the priestly element, and the prophetic element, and the military element, all help us to stand against the great system that is coming in?
JT Just so, I think there is a good deal of instruction in that, especially in how Solomon himself acted, and then how those that were guilty secretly, were brought into judgment. We can count on that; and so Jezebel is going to be brought into judgment. “And her children will I kill with death”, the Lord says here.
ECB In relation to what you are saying, would not Matthew’s gospel come in as a great support? Matthew 16 especially, and the last verse of the gospel. Is there not great comfort in the assurance that hades’ gates shall not prevail against the assembly, and in the Lord’s presence with us all the days?
JT All that is most assuring.
EuR You referred to Jezebel and her children. Have you in mind that her children would suggest the different systems of Protestantism now, to a large extent, taking on some feature of Rome?
JT “And her children”. It is a question of what there may have been in the dark ages of Europe and how Rome’s children came into prominence and were killed with death. I should think the word ‘death’ would mean just apostasy; that there is an apostatising spirit current, and it is current now too. Certain ones are becoming affected by apostasy, and of course, communism would be that in time. But where it says Jezebel’s children, it refers to Rome, that system; it is apostasy and nothing less [p. 174] than that.
EAL Thyatira represents the public position and at present we see Rome is inclined to make much capital out of the attitude of certain high clerics in Protestantism. Is that somewhat like the sword of Goliath, the uncircumcised Philistine, being used to take off his own head? He had defied the armies of the living God. Then, too, is it like what we get in Corinthians where we see the messenger of Satan being used to help Paul that he might not be over-exalted after being in the third heaven? The messenger of Satan is used to do the work of the Lord, so nothing can be done against the truth but for the truth.
JT Very good. That is to say, at Corinth there was a messenger of Satan sent to Paul, so that he might not be exalted above measure. The Lord says to him, “My grace suffices thee; for my power is perfected in weakness”; and therefore the apostle says, “Most gladly therefore will I rather boast in my weaknesses, that the power of the Christ may dwell upon me”. We have therefore a solution of the whole matter in regard to these questions that are now before us.
EAL I would like to refer to the remark of beloved Mr. Darby, that when he would be privileged to break bread on the Lord’s day he would think of the brethren in the systems. Do you not think we ought to have right feelings about such?
JT That is good. I would say that too. We cannot ignore what God is doing with them, even although they are not walking in the full light in which we are, through grace. That is to say, the revival is to the full light of christianity, the full light of the assembly; but, at the same time, there are those who are not coming into the full light, and of course, we must be patient with them and wait on them, having in mind that God may deliver them.
JWB Is there a remnant in [p. 175] Thyatira now?
JT I think so.
PL Mr. Darby wrote two addresses ‘to his Roman Catholic brethren by a minister of the Gospel’.
JT And then he says another thing that is over against that, that the notion of a clergyman is dispensationally the sin against the Holy Spirit. That is to say, the idea, or notion, of a clergyman, and that is not in Rome only, it is in Protestantism also.
AJG Is that what is referred to in the Lord saying to Sardis, “I have not found thy works complete before my God”, in that the clerical system was not overthrown in Sardis?
JT Just so. They have not gone to the full length.
Ques Referring to Thyatira; the word in verse 20 is, “Thou permittest the woman Jezebel”, and then in verse 21, “And she will not repent”; not she would not but “she will not repent”. Does that expose the boastful claim to authority of the Church of Rome?
JT That would bring out just what has been remarked, that the political side of the position which begins in chapter 4 with the throne seen standing in heaven, has in mind that Jezebel comes into judgment, but not as Jezebel but as the woman that rides the beast. It is the same thing, the same system, only she is viewed politically, for she rides the beast, and so her doom is predicted; it is intimated, or seen; in chapter 18 of the book we are reading.
Rem Over against what is said as to Jezebel, the word to the overcomer in verse 26 is “to him will I give authority over the nations”.
JT That is, there is moral power with the overcomer. The Lord is not simply speaking now of a literal sword, but the moral power that is with the overcomer. So that He says, “He that overcomes,
[p. 176] and he that keeps unto the end my works, to him will I give authority over the nations, and he shall shepherd them with an iron rod; as vessels of pottery are they broken in pieces, as I also have received from my Father; and I will give to him the morning star”. All these are promises to the overcomer, and I think they are on moral grounds. These promises are what we are coming into as the remnant, in the midst of Protestantism. The coming of the Lord is the answer to all this.
NKM What would the Lord particularly be referring to when He alludes to “my works” in speaking of the overcomer? “And he that keeps unto the end my works”.
JT There is what the Lord is giving us to do, in our own little way now; what the Lord is apportioning to us as viewed as the remnant in Thyatira.
AED And is the Lord referring to His mediatorial service in the word, “as I also have received from my Father”, in contrast to Rome, where it is denied?
JT What He receives from His Father is what He has come into, and the overcomer in Thyatira is coming into it, which is very comforting to us. These promises are very comforting for us. Then chapter 3 refers to Sardis, so that we have now come to the actual Reformation. What is said there shows that Sardis has not answered to the Lord’s mind in completing things; but there is a word that ought to comfort us, and that is, “These things saith he that has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars”. That is to say, He has the Holy Spirit in fulness. The Lord has fulness of spiritual power in His own hands; Sardis has not got it, the Lord has it. The ecclesiastical system in Protestantism has nothing really in the sense of full spiritual power; the Lord has all that. Then the next thing is, “I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. That is to say, things are in a dead condition in the Protestant system around us. At the same time, the Lord says that He has the seven Spirits of God, and He has the seven stars.
EuR What is the import in that He has the seven stars?
JT Well, it is just that He has control of the position. The assembly has not control; Protestantism and all the councils and synods and so forth, they have not anything. The Lord has not committed anything to them in that sense, but He has committed something, as we shall see, to Philadelphia. We have not come to that yet, but we shall see that the Lord has something there.
AJG Would it be right to say that the deadness of things in Sardis is entirely due to the non-recognition of the Spirit?
JT I would think that is fully the truth. We have already quoted the remark that ‘the notion of a clergyman is dispensationally the sin against the Holy Spirit’; the Holy Spirit is denied in that sense.
Ques Would you say a word on, “Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard”-not ‘what’?
JT All the ministry that had come out in the Reformation, including Luther because God gave him a place I am certain, is alluded to. It is a question of what Sardis has received, and whether they are keeping it and going on with it. And so it goes on, “Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and keep it and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come upon thee as a thief”. He is saying He will come upon them, just as He comes to the world. There is no difference between Protestantism and the world. When the Lord comes He will deal with them as the world.
RWS It says in verse 4, “But thou hast a few names in Sardis which have not defiled their garments,
[p. 178] and they shall walk with me in white, because they are worthy”, I am enquiring about some of the hymns in Sardis to the Holy Spirit. Would this be an allusion to such?
JT It is possibly an allusion to the ministry of some. If we look over our hymns we find that some of them were written before the revival began, and, of course, we cannot but recognise them. We recognise the merits of these hymns, and the value of our hymns and our hymn book is an important matter to bring up just now. Some of us went over the hymn book in 1932, and the Lord gave us this result. The question now is whether there can be anything more done. Anyway, it is important that each one of us should take to heart as to whether we know the hymn book, and all that there is in it, in a spiritual sense.
HH What about these hymns to the Spirit, should they be put in?
JT It is a question of their importance. There is no one who would undertake to say we should have another revision. I certainly would not, I think we have a good hymn book, and we should go on with it as it is. It costs a great deal to revise a hymn book, and I doubt very much whether it is needed. At the same time it is well to take notice of anything that comes in that may be called an addition to what we have spiritually, and there are many such. Many hymns have come to different ones as regards the Spirit, and they are good too, and profitable, and worth reading.
Rem There are over forty hymns in the book that have some reference to the Spirit.
EuR There is no hymn in the book which is addressed to the Spirit.