THE MEDIATORIAL SERVICE OF CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT (5)

^[p. 203] THE MEDIATORIAL SERVICE OF CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT (5)

Revelation 19: 1 - 9; Revelation 21: 1 - 8

JT The beginning of chapter 19, to the end of verse 5, was read because it gives the background to all that follows; that is to say, the assembly viewed as the wife of Christ and the bride of Christ. The suggestion now is that the sections read convey to us the truth as to the assembly, first in the ending of its responsible life here, culminating in its place as the bride of Christ, and then leading on to the passage in chapter 21, which involves the completion of everything, leading into eternity. Whilst undoubtedly these two passages involve the rapture, as we call it, yet there is the idea of responsibility entering into chapter 19 particularly; and then there is what we may call an appendix to bring out more fully the idea of the assembly in its administrative capacity in the millennium. So it was morally right that the history intervening between the addresses to the assemblies and this section should come into view, so that we now, as still living here in responsibility, should not overlook what the completion is to be, but prepare for it. The idea of preparation is strong in the passage in chapter 19, “his wife has made herself ready”, and then when she is seen later as “a bride adorned for her husband”.

Ques Would that stress the necessity for understanding the eternal place of the assembly before the administration of the millennium?

JT Well, I think the eternal place really comes in before we have the millennial facts. It is a question of spiritual understanding as to what has yet to be done, because all must come into change, for flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom of God. So that the Lord will help us doubtless to think on these things and to see how what we now have part in ^[p. 204] down here culminates in the eternal state in which each of us will be and in which the assembly will be.

PHH May I ask if you make a distinction between “his wife”, in chapter 19 and “the bride”, or “as a bride”, in chapter 21?

JT Well, the early verses of chapter 21 contemplate almost what is figurative, because of the “as”. John says, “I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea exists no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride”. The preparation and what works out in it: “as a bride”, there, is a strong figurative presentation of the assembly. But when we come to verse 9 of chapter 21, it is said, “And there came one of the seven angels which had had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues, and spoke with me, saying, Come here, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife”. So in this chapter we have come to the beginning of what we may call the eternal state, but still the administrative side that she is to occupy, and therefore the description that we have in the whole of chapter 21. In the meantime what is in mind is to get the idea of chapter 19 and how she is seen there. First we have the great jubilation over the overthrow of Babylon, and then in verses 6 and 7, “^[p. 215] I heard as a voice of a great crowd, and as a voice of many waters, and as a voice of strong thunders, saying, Hallelujah, for the Lord our God the Almighty has taken to himself kingly power. Let us rejoice and exult, and give him glory; for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready”. Then we are told what is given to her; so that we have presented to us in the passage almost the end of the responsible period and the beginning of the eternal conditions.

LES Would Psalm 150 have any bearing on this, as to the word ‘Hallelujah’? “Hallelujah! Praise ^[p. 205] God in his sanctuary; praise him in the firmament of his power. Praise him in his mighty acts; praise him according to the abundance of his greatness”. And then the last verse, “Let everything that hath breath praise Jah, Hallelujah!”. I was wondering if the buoyancy and the exalted character of praise in the psalm would not underlie this passage here.

JT Well, just so. We may link on the Old Testament with the New, and especially when it becomes a question of psalms, David being the “sweet psalmist of Israel”. He speaks of “the instruments which I made”, 1 Chronicles 23: 5. That is to say, the instruments of praise are the work of Christ figuratively.

CAI What is involved in the making herself ready? Does it include what is suggested in Proverbs 31, the assembly as the virtuous woman here?

JT I would say that. It is another link between the Old Testament and the New. That is to say, it is one idea; the mind of God is one in both books, the Old and the New.

FJF It is remarkable in that passage at the end of Proverbs that the whole Hebrew alphabet is covered in what is said of her. From verse 10 to the end of the chapter, the initial Hebrew letter of each verse follows the alphabetical order.

AED In this link between the Old and the New, might we refer to verse 12 of chapter 21, where the names inscribed are those of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel?

JT That is another link. It is well to remind us of that because the twelve tribes come down to us from the Old Testament, and have their place in the New. The links are therefore the stronger the more we look at them; so that we may say it is one idea from the first of Genesis to the end of Revelation, one great idea. It is the book of God, as a matter of fact, the book.

^[p. 206] Ques Does not chapter 21 show that the accumulated glory of all the dispensations is seen in the assembly?

JT I would say that too. It shows the place that God had designed for the assembly, and especially the place that He intended for it in the book of Revelation, that which God gave to Christ to show to His bondmen the things which must shortly come to pass. It is something that God does, no doubt, to express His admiration and love for Christ; He gave Him this book. According to Mark 13, as we have already remarked, the Lord takes the ground of not knowing certain things; everything is in the hand of the Father, He says. So that more and more we can see the links between the Old Testament and the New.

FCH Why do you think the assembly is presented in relation to the Lamb at the end of Revelation, this view of her not forming part of Paul’s ministry nor referred to in the early part of Revelation?

JT I think the Lamb as seen, beginning with chapter 5, means a sufferer; it implies suffering. He is seen as the Lamb that was slain.

AJG Is the marriage of the Lamb regarded as the public vindication of Him and a celebration?

JT That is what I should think, and how she is in it. According to Proverbs, “her husband is known in the gates”. That is to say, the assembly reflects the Lord Jesus in His suffering character.

Ques Because she participates in them?

JT She participates in the sufferings. It is given to us, on behalf of Christ, “not only the believing on him but the suffering for him also”, Philippians 1: 29.

AJG And therefore her presence here is to enhance this occasion?

JT ^[p. 207] Just so.

PHH Would that connect itself at all with the Lord’s supper as being in a scene of suffering? Would you be free at that time to refer to both the Lord’s sufferings and the suffering position of the assembly?

JT Yes; I certainly should. It has often been remarked that it is a dead Christ that is presented to us. First He is dead: “I became dead”, He says; but then He is alive for evermore. Therefore the Lord’s death is the great thought that dominates in regard to His Supper.

RWS Then it says in verse 9, “And he says to me, Write, Blessed are they who are called to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb”. You have helped us elsewhere that this is not only a future thought, but it is linked on with the marital thought in the service in the morning meeting.

JT Just so. The Lord should surely have something, in that sense, as coming to us. We might say He comes out of heaven; but really He comes to us in relation to what is on earth immediately. If we regard it as it actually comes about, He comes to us not exactly from heaven, He is coming as in a scene of suffering, as in the scene of testimony, and the Lord’s supper must enter into that, and it does enter into it, and we have part in it. So, as the service proceeds, we move on because He becomes the Minister of the sanctuary; He takes the thing on Himself and looks after everything for us.

PHH In relation to what was said in the first reading, about redemption, may I ask whether you would say a little more about the mention of the Lord’s sufferings? I remember at Glasgow we seemed to get clear about the suffering position of the assembly, but now are we to understand that we are free to refer also to the Lord’s sufferings, His own personal ^[p. 208] sufferings?

JT I would think so. I think we should. If we go over the facts beginning with verse 17 of 1 Corinthians 11, I think we shall see that.

Ques Would you think that the reference to the Lord’s feet in Luke 24 might give us liberty to refer to the way love has taken, involving the sufferings? In John, it is His hands and His side, but in the local position, as suggested in Luke, it is His hands and His feet.

JT Yes; as if it were the idea of travel. The woman in Luke 7 apprehended the Lord as travelling to her, as it were. It is as if she would say, ‘He has come all this way for me!’ The Lord says, “For she loved much”.

JC-S You spoke of the Lord’s burden, in giving thanks for the emblems last Lord’s day. Had you in mind His personal sufferings, in that way?

JT He said, “My burden is light”; but still there was the idea of it. “Come to me, all ye who labour and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me ... and ye shall find rest to your souls”. It is a burden, but it is a light one. It is characteristic really of the Lord as to what is on the first day of the week.

JGH What character of the Lord’s sufferings would be before us in the Supper?

JT Well, you would scarcely say much about the forsaking, but the idea of suffering is there anyway. But if one is pressed to allude to the Lord’s death in the atoning sense, well, it would be a question of the state of one’s soul and what would be in one’s mind in so doing, and just how much should enter into the time of service in the sense of suffering. So that if one is burdened much, as sometimes we are, one might refer to the Lord’s atoning sufferings. He died for us; He died for the assembly.

JTJr Peter says, “Christ indeed has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might ^[p. 209] bring us to God; being put to death in flesh”. Does that enter into the thought of the Christ as dead, and His death for us?

JT Quite so. Peter has that in mind.

Ques Do the types help us in discriminating as to what is suitable on the altar of burnt-offering? The body of the sin offering was burnt outside the camp, but the inwards of the sin offering were burnt on the altar (Leviticus 4: 8 - 12).

JT Well, all these things are right, I am sure, and the Lord would help us at a time like this. We are here, not exactly in conference, but we are here to communicate with one another and to give occasion for ministry, and fellowship too. Therefore all these things should be canvassed thoroughly as we are together, so that the character of Christ should shine out in its features in the closing days of the testimony, and of the service of the assembly.

Ques I was thinking of the assembly as “the pillar and base of the truth”, and therefore as the custodian, in the Spirit, of every feature of the personal glories of Christ. Would not that give great liberty at the Supper to touch on any aspect of the sufferings of Christ that reflected His glory?

JT Well, that is good. Therefore the priestly side comes in. It is a question of priestly power, because priestly power is what God has designed as suitable for His service and for those who have part in it. It is not simply a matter of the mind, but the heart is in it too. The mind is in it, of course, especially as it is said: the calling of Me to mind. At the same time the affections must be in it too, so that both the intelligence of the saints and their affections are bound up with the Lord’s supper.

HH On the road to Emmaus the Lord said, “Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into his glory?”, and then it leads up to the breaking of ^[p. 210] bread.

JT The solemn word comes in there: “O senseless and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into his glory?”. That is to say, the Lord is speaking strongly of spiritual slothfulness in the service of God, and would spur us to more zeal and holiness in the part we have in the Lord’s supper. We are priests unto God, for Christ has made us that, as it says. He has “made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father”. The point would be therefore (according to what we are saying now) to stress the idea of holiness combined with intelligence in the service of God. For many years the Lord has been stressing the service of God and what enters into it, and that those who have part in it are made priests unto God. They are made that; He has “made us a kingdom, priests to his God”.

AJG Would not the increasing recognition of the Holy Spirit result in the holiness and the intelligence which you refer to?

JT Quite so. Moreover we are not only priests unto God, we are priests “of the Christ”, Revelation 20: 6. That is, He has His own priests. When therefore we come down to the actual Supper, it is the Lord’s supper; and He has His priests, so that we might have part in it peculiarly.

SMcC Would Genesis 15 help us in that way, as to the service of God? Abraham says, “How shall I know?” and then we have reference to Abraham scaring certain things away, suggesting the power to eliminate and to keep away certain things, and to include other things.

JT Quite so. So that the priestly part was there in Abraham. He was a priest, qualified as a priest; and so he makes inquiry from Jehovah. He says, “How shall I know?”. A very important thing! We ^[p. 211] ought to know things, so as to be priests and have intelligent part in the service.

WS How far on in the service are the references to which we have alluded suitable?

JT I think the immediate participation in the breaking of the bread, and the drinking of the cup. It is the immediate use that we are making of the emblems, bringing out the idea of calling Christ to mind. The idea is to bring a proper state into our minds, so that we can touch the heavenly things in a holy way.

EBMcC Would you say that eldership is more to be desired than bondmen, because we have in verses 4 and 5: “The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and did homage to God who sits upon the throne, saying, Amen, Hallelujah. And a voice came out of ^[p. 212] the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his bondmen, and ye that fear him, small and great”? I was thinking that the elders and the creatures were ahead of the bondmen.

JT Yes, only when we come to the Lord’s supper we have to make allowance for those who are there. All ages are supposed to be there; all qualified as having the Spirit.

JPH Is it interesting that in Matthew 26 the Lord says as to the cup, “For this is my blood, that of the new covenant, that shed for many for remission of sins”? I wondered if that had a bearing on what you are saying as to the atoning sufferings.

JT Well, it does. But what has been remarked is important too, as to the elders, as if they took the place of priests. Would you kindly say what you mean by elders taking the place of priests?

EBMcC I was thinking of the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures who fell down and did homage to God at the judgment of the harlot, but then there was a voice that came out of the throne saying, “Praise our God, all ye his bondmen, and ye that fear him, small and great”. I was thinking that the elders were more in line and were prepared to move immediately, whereas a voice had to come out of the throne to the others.

JT When we come to actual facts, we have all ages of brethren, and therefore we have to make allowance for certain states, so that they are not shut out by any matter of real experience in some. The fact that they are believers and have the Spirit qualifies them to have part in the Lord’s supper and in the service of God, because the idea of the service of God begins with the Lord’s supper, and that must include all the saints, all those who have the Spirit.

JC-S So that there is not a state present in any one that cannot be met in the emblems.

JT Just so; it is for them. However young they may be, if they have the Spirit they have liberty to have part in the Lord’s supper, and therefore to proceed into the full thought of the service of God.

CMM Could we have a word as to the Holy Spirit’s place at the Lord’s supper?

JT Well, He must have a part in it. The Holy Spirit must have a part in the service of God. He is the power for everything in that sense, subjectively, because He is here. The great point is that the Holy Spirit is here, as a Paraclete, to take charge of everything for us, so that nothing is out of keeping with God Himself, whether it be God in Christ, or God the Father, or the Spirit, for that matter.

FJF Would it be appropriate to address Him before the partaking of the emblems?

JT If you view Him as One of the divine Persons, and He is a divine Person. He is in a position to be addressed according to the thoughts or principles that govern the assembly and the service of God. We ought to be free to address the Spirit ^[p. 213] at any time, but there are principles that govern the service of God, and I believe they begin at the Lord’s supper, and that it is the Lord’s supper. It is not the Spirit’s supper, although the Spirit augments the service, but the beginning of the service of God involves the Lord’s supper. It is His supper; it is not the Father’s supper, nor the Spirit’s supper, it is Christ’s supper. There are priests that have part in it and should know how to do so, but we become instructed. The young people become instructed by what they observe in others; so that there is always teaching; “they shall be all taught of God”. The principle of teaching runs right through, in all things.

SMcC Your reference just now to the Spirit augmenting is exceedingly helpful. Would we see the idea of augmenting in a special way, in relation to the cup, as drinking into the same Spirit, and also in 2 Corinthians 3?

JT The Lord is said to be the Spirit in 2 Corinthians 3. So that there is nothing at all to interfere with the Spirit being brought in, because He is here in that connection. He is here to look after things. Even before we leave our houses, in looking after our children, the Spirit is ready to help us, in the sense of promoting holiness and righteousness in the houses of the saints, as we proceed in the morning, on the first day of the week, to partake of the Lord’s supper.

HH It says, “Through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father”. What you have been saying in connection with the morning meeting, would that be from beginning to end of the service?

JT Well, the Spirit would be there, whether it be in what relates to the Lord Himself or in what relates to the Father. That passage in Ephesians would, of course, undoubtedly allude to what we say is the second part of the meeting. It would allude to Him because “through him” (that is,

through Christ) “we have both access ... to the Father”.

RWS Would the titles by which the Holy Spirit might be addressed be governed by the phase of the service in which we are?

JT Well, quite; but whatever may be needed. The Spirit graciously lays Himself open, as it were, to be usable to us in the service of God, according to whatever may be needed. But then, of course, there are, in general, the principles that govern the service of God, which begins properly with the Lord’s supper. The Lord has the first place, in that sense. It is not the Father’s supper, nor the Spirit’s supper; but the Spirit is ready to serve us, to help us, so that the service should be all the more acceptable to God Himself, to the Father.

Ques What is your mind as to prayer or thanksgiving or a hymn addressed exclusively to the Holy Spirit?

JT Well, I think if the Spirit is here to help us, the simple thing would be to leave Him, in a holy sense, in the place He has taken. He is sent, of course; the Lord Jesus has sent Him, but then the Lord asked for Him too. The point therefore would be to leave the Spirit in the place that He has taken in His own infinite intelligence, to leave Him where He is ready to help us.

WSS So that the reference to the wife making herself ready would all involve the service of the Holy Spirit.

JT It would. Very good. So that we might as well proceed now to that point, because the verses in the beginning of chapter 19, running on to verse 5, refer negatively to what preceded; that is, the destruction of Babylon, as if God would glory in it. It is spoken of twice, according to the word: “And a second time they said, Hallelujah”. The matter is therefore left there, and then in verse 6 it says,

“I heard as a voice of a great crowd, and as a voice of many waters, and as a voice of strong thunders, saying, Hallelujah, for the Lord our God the Almighty has taken to himself kingly power”. So that God has come into the whole matter now, and then the next thing is, “Let us rejoice and exult, and give him glory; for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready”. Well, now, the Spirit, of course, would be ready to aid her as a bride; a very touching thought! He would aid her as a bride. How much attention, in a literal sense, a bride requires! And we may bring the feminine thought into it too; what attention there is needed to make her suitable for her husband! When you apply that to Christ, you can see how the Spirit would readily come into it.

JTJr Is the assembly viewed in that way therefore a collective thought, that the wife is making herself ready?

JT It is a collective thought. “Let us rejoice and exult, and give him glory; for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready”. The word ‘wife’ refers to the assembly, and that, of course, is collective.

JTJr Do you think what worked out in Corinth would come into that, the assembly acting in regard to having things right in the locality?

JT Just so, I would go to Corinth for all matters relative to the order of the assembly and the order that governs the assembly in the service of God.

AJG Do you think the wife making herself ready would refer largely to faithfulness to the interests of Christ in a suffering scene, and then the bride refers to the refinement that would constitute adornment?

JT Quite so, I think what you say is clearly indicated in the idea of the wife. The end of ^[p. 216] Proverbs shows how she attends to things, “Her husband is known in the gates”; she attends to everything as to the household.

Ques Would the fact that Esther required nothing but what Hegai gave her bear on this matter?

JT It does. He was, as it were, in masculine charge, so to speak, of a wife, a prospective wife; he was in charge of her. He supplied her with what was needed, and that may be taken to be a symbol of what the Spirit can be to the assembly, in view of her relation to Christ as His wife, as His bride.

EAL Has it not been said that the service of God should be made right in a locality? I am thinking of what has happened in regard of this matter of addressing the Holy Spirit and of what is taking place in certain localities where a brother is holding up the brethren generally in not seeing what the Lord is doing among His people in the way of bringing in truth to help us. Do you think that such a matter should be brought into the care meeting? Then too, in this area, there is such a thing as young brothers who have addressed the Spirit being rebuked by older brothers.

JT Would you state, in a very few words, what you are alluding to, and what was actually done?

EAL I am told that there were two young brothers who addressed the Spirit and that they were rebuked by older brothers. Do you think that matter should be brought up in the care meeting immediately?

JT That is what I would say, immediately. Are the brethren here who are responsible? We are not, of course, here to execute judgment on a local assembly, but we might as well examine the thing that you bring forward.

Rem Brethren from the place are here, and locally it is an exercise, and it is going forward.

JT Well, then, we can leave it there.

WC ^[p. 217] Would the reference to what the fine linen is confirm that the readiness is on the line we are speaking of; that is, matters of judgment? The same word is used earlier as to the righteousness of God (Revelation 15: 4).

JT Well, that really comes to what we are speaking about. Do you not think that is in line with what our brother was speaking about? Is it right that we should bring it forward, or can we leave it to the local brethren?

WC I think the brethren need strengthening, because it has happened in more than one locality, to my knowledge.

JT Then it becomes a question for us here, as to what is suitable in these matters. It says in verse 7, “Let us rejoice and exult, and give him glory; for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready. And it was given to her that she should ^[p. 218] be clothed in fine linen, bright and pure; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints”. The question of righteousness must therefore come into this matter. Is it so that the brethren will not allow the Spirit to be used or mentioned in the service? Is that so, in any gathering? It is clear that the assembly should be marked by righteousness, and righteousness should cover the order and the conduct that enters into assembly service. Therefore what is said here includes that.

EuR If there is a definite issue as to righteousness or holiness in any local assembly, would not that be a matter of concern to all the local assemblies?

JT It would; only that we do not want a matter of administrative action, in the way of penalty, brought up here. We want to be dealing with the bride. First we have the wife of Christ, and then she is called the bride later. The question now is whether we have clearly before us what these garments are, “It was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and pure; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints”. Therefore the question of righteousness must enter into anything done with any local brother or sister who is not right.

Rem In chapter 2, the Lord says, “But if not, I am coming to thee”. That is to say, if Ephesus does not repent. But here it says, “his wife has made herself ready”. I wondered whether the Lord expects us to take up matters, and whether the righteousness, the preparation, would involve that.

ECM Does Matthew 22 have any bearing on it? The king comes in there to see the guests and saw a man not having on a wedding garment.

JT Just so. Therefore the whole matter that is mentioned now comes into what we are speaking of. It is a question as to what is suitable in the wife of Christ; that is, to be practical, what conduct is suitable to ourselves as we think of the wife of Christ in relation to Him.

WSS Is what we have in chapter 18, verse 20: “Rejoice over her, heaven, and ye saints and apostles and prophets; for God has judged your judgment upon her”, a background, so to speak, to what we have in chapter 19? Does it show that a right moral judgment has been come to, by the Spirit, in regard to all these moral questions?

JT Well, quite so, and, of course, that is what we are considering now in chapter 19; the question of the Lamb, and the Lamb’s wife, “Let us rejoice and exult, and give him glory; for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready”. Well now, these matters that have just come up imply readiness in view of the Lord’s coming. The question is whether these matters that have come up before us, are true or not, and whether brothers have been rebuked, or are being rebuked for speaking to the Spirit, I think this ought to be ^[p. 219] taken account of, and that we all should see to it and to the principles that govern the service of God in relation to the Spirit of God, and what part He has in it.

LES Does not the footnote to the word ‘righteousnesses’ help? It says, ‘Possibly here as in Hebrew the plural of acts expressing a quality (here righteous acts) is used for the abstract quality itself’.

JT And then our judgment, we should all come to it now. This question now comes up as to how the wifely qualities are seen at the present time amongst us, and whether they lead up to and correspond with eternal conditions.

Ques What would you say about a care meeting deciding when there will be liberty for the Spirit to be addressed? I have been told that at a certain place the care meeting decided that no one should address the Spirit until all were free about it.

JT I should object very strongly to the care meeting taking on any part like that, because it is a question of authoritative judgment, and that does not belong to the care meeting. The care meeting is just consultative, taking counsel together with a view to anything that may or may not be done in the assembly.

Rem I had in my mind that the care meeting, in administration, cannot decide such a matter. It is an issue of truth which should govern us as soon as it is clear to us.

JT I would say that, definitely. The care meeting does not go beyond consideration, or taking counsel together with a view to assembly matters and to keeping things right authoritatively. I heard that the matter came up in Australia, but I did not think it was continued, nor that any care meetings now are assuming to have assembly authority. I should be very thankful to hear whether the brethren are accepting that or ^[p. 220] not.

Rem That is generally accepted, I think.

JT If it is clear that the brethren generally accept that the care meeting has not assembly authority, one is thankful, and I hope it is so and I believe it is so, too.

JTJr I think there is a meeting in Germany that thinks that they must all wait till the care meeting has decided on a point. It is just to help our brethren on the Continent in regard of these things that one raises the matter, because in most meetings on the Continent they do not have the ministry meeting, nor do they have a special collection. We all ought to be of one mind universally in these things, so that what is done in one place is done in another, in the same light.

JT Well, there are brethren from the Continent here. Are they ready to speak and tell us whether they have care meetings, and if so that they are not regarding them as assembly meetings.

JS I come from D, I quite agree that the care meeting is not empowered to make decisions but when we have to make these we call all the sisters together as well. The sisters do not, of course, speak, but they bring support to what the brothers say. I can speak for the meeting where I am, but I am not able to state positively if that is the case in all the meetings in Germany.

EuR I think it would be right to say that in some parts of Germany they are greatly held up by saying that things should not be arrived at till every individual brother and sister is happy about them, and that holds matters up.

JS When one desires to be in fellowship with us we speak about it first as brothers in the care meeting, and when all the brothers are free we make an announcement in the meeting and wait for a week to see if all are free. Then if anyone has to be withdrawn from, the matter would come up in the care ^[p. 221] meeting first, but we do not decide there what to do, but we bring the matter before the whole assembly. We know, of course, that we cannot call the whole assembly together because that includes all christians in the place, but we call those who are available as in fellowship with us in the breaking of bread.

JT I should like to know what Mr. W, has to say on these matters, and whether in general what has been said as to the care meeting not being regarded as an authoritative meeting is accepted.

AW We regard the care meeting only as consultative and all things requiring any action must be brought into the assembly. If there is a case of withdrawal, we would first have a care meeting about it and then an assembly meeting.

JT Well, I am sure we should all say that is quite correct, and we can count that God will use Mr. W, and Mr. S, and others to get the truth disseminated amongst the saints.

We can now proceed with chapter 21. It says: “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea exists no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband”, ‘Prepared’; but she is now seen “as a bride adorned for her husband”. Therefore it is, you might say, a figure, but the full thought of the assembly is in mind, and that she is to be adorned. Then it proceeds further, “And I heard a loud voice out of the heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men”. It is now a question of God Himself “with men”. It is not with Jews by themselves, but with men, and that is evidently going into eternity. The state implied on to the end of verse 8 is an eternal condition and shows what the assembly is to ^[p. 222] be eternally.

PHH Does this reinforce the feminine thought, as being eternally true of the assembly?

JT I would think so. She is to be viewed as female; the feminine idea governs the whole matter. It is Christ and the assembly, which means that Christ Himself is the full thought of the masculine and the assembly is the feminine.

FW Does the thought of ‘wife’ relate to time, and the thought of ‘bride’ relate to the eternal state?

JT Well, ‘wife’, I think, would relate to time, but it comes in in relation to the bride also. You might therefore say that the wife and the bride are synonymous; only the wife refers to what the assembly is to the Lord in caring for His interests here below and running on into the eternal state. We are to prepare ourselves now for the eternal state at any time, morally; only that the idea of the assembly is to run on to the end under the heading of ‘wife’. A wife cares for her husband’s interests.

EuR The city is called ‘the holy city’, and would not part of the preparation be the obedience to the exhortation at the end of 2 Corinthians 6?

JT Well, just so. But the first thing is, “I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea exists no more”. And then, “I saw the holy city”. It is as if the idea of holiness is to permeate the whole matter until we come to verse 8, and then it is taken up again in verse 9, running on to the administrative side in the remainder of the chapter. Then we move to chapter 22, where we have the Lord saying, “I am the root and offspring of David, the bright and morning star”. And then “the Spirit and the bride say, Come”.

AED You referred to the full thought, “God himself”; would that be linked with the expression, “God ... all in all”, as involving the full ^[p. 223] thought?

JT Well. Himself, quite so.

JC-S Is the assembly the medium by which this great thought of tabernacling is brought in?

JT Quite so. It is “with men”. It is not any longer among the Jews by themselves, it is “with men”.

JC-S And the assembly only will have the feminine idea; the other families will not share in the feminine thought, will they?

JT Well, I should think not. The assembly is exclusively the bride of Christ, and so she appears as the city later at the end of the whole matter.

FJF I have heard it said that God is the Husband here, and not the Lord Jesus. That cannot be right, can it?

JT No. The Lord Jesus is the Husband of the assembly.

EuR With regard to 2 Corinthians 6: 16, “I will dwell among them, and walk among them”, is there a reference to the tabernacle there? That is what characterises the heavenly city.

JT Very good. Quite so.

SMcC Does the feminine thought here especially allude to what the assembly is as out of Christ and out of heaven? Mr. Stoney used to say that nothing could be united to Christ but what is out of Christ, and nothing would go into heaven but what came out of heaven.

JT Well, that is quite true, of course. We might then go back to Genesis 2 as to Eve being taken out of Adam, for that is where we get the first idea that we are now dealing with. Eve was taken out of Adam while he was in a deep sleep; that is to say, the assembly is taken out of Christ; she is of Him. These closing chapters in the book of Revelation really connect with the beginning of Genesis; so that the thought of Christ and the assembly is outstanding, the assembly representing the feminine ^[p. 224] thought and Christ representing the masculine. On the other hand, we cannot ignore that the sons of God are masculine too, but they are viewed severally, not collectively but severally.

JTS Would you please help us as to what enters into the word “prepared as a bride”.

JT ‘Prepared’ refers to all that is necessary, or all that is suitable, to a bridal condition. Of course, the assembly is seen here now, as we have been looking at it, as a bride, and she is prepared, and we are told what she is allowed to use as clothing, fine linen.

AJG Would it not involve the taking on of all the features of spiritual refinement that are so being stressed in these days?

JT I would say that. These are precious thoughts that we are engaged with, and the Lord is helping us, as it were, to extricate ourselves from ordinary matters, as we are in these meetings, to be engaged in these holy matters referring to Christ and the assembly; especially now that we have selected, we believe under the guidance of the Spirit, the subject of the bride herself, the assembly viewed in that light.

Ques Would a thought in ‘the bride’ be the reciprocity of affection unhindered, rather than what is administrative?

JT Well, I would say it is the relation of the assembly towards Christ, and what affection there is between them. There is, as you say, what is reciprocated, and therefore it is Christ and the assembly. We can only get all this doctrinally in looking at the epistle to the Ephesians, and, of course, we have no time for that. We have been dealing with one matter, and that is Christ and the assembly.

Rem She is called both the bride and the wife in the millennium setting, in verse ^[p. 225] 9.

JT Yes, but I think the idea of the bride, as we shall see in chapter 22, is what she is to Christ; it is not as the wife, but as the assembly herself, according to the purpose of God, for Christ. It is according to the purpose of God when He decreed that He should make man. “Let us make man in our image ... and let them ...”. That is to say, it is the man and his wife, “Christ, and ... the assembly”. The epistle to the Ephesians is the epistle that affords all the truth, I might well say, as to these holy matters. So that that is the thing to carry away from this reading, “Christ, and ... the assembly” as viewed in the epistle to the Ephesians; and as we have it now in this remarkable book, which is given to Christ, who Himself gives it to John, to testify of all that he saw. The Lord directs him as to the things that he is to write about, and what he is to write about has a great deal to do with the truth of the assembly, first in the form of local assemblies and then secondly as viewed as coming down from God out of heaven. That is to say, she is indigenous to heaven, whereas the first part of the book of Revelation is not that; it is what she is here on earth in responsibility.

AJG And the wife connects rather with that latter position?

JT That is right. That is what I thought. We began this morning with that thought, so as to bring out the full thought of responsibility here on earth.

EuR It is very beautiful that after a thousand years of reigning with Christ, she should still be as a bride.

JT Quite so. We will take that up again.