THE PERSON OF CHRIST AND ETERNAL LIFE (2)
[p. 436] THE PERSON OF CHRIST AND ETERNAL LIFE (2)
1 John 3: 1 - 24; 1 John 4: 1 - 14
JT It should be observed that the family of God is in mind in this chapter; but the family of God as children, not as sons, children being an expression of derivation, viewing us particularly before God in His love for us. John never uses the word ‘sons’ as to us, except in one place and that is in Revelation 21. So that the chapter before us now is the family of God in the sense of our being children, children of God. We have also in the chapter the idea of John being our father, or at least, we being the children of John, which is a matter we touched on at the last reading. It is important to keep in mind the way John treats of the saints. He has personal experience with God and is honoured in his service. Those who serve us are to be honoured and helped in every way in the service, and they have certain rights attaching to them. It will be noticed that the word ‘begotten’ has a very distinct place in the chapter. It is not the word ‘born’, I think the idea of being begotten calls attention to the father, as in Abraham. There is a certain progenitive authority connected with one who is a father. But the word for us immediately is the love. We are called upon to notice it: “See what love the Father has given to us”. Notice the title “Father” here; it is not our Father, but it is a title of God, a peculiar title of God in John. It is God in grace, and in relation to the family.
JC-S “To us there is one God, the Father”, is that the idea?
JT Yes, just so. And what is to be noted too is the stress laid on the ‘seeing’, seeing the Lord, “Beloved, now are we children of God, and what we shall be has not yet been manifested; we know that [p. 437] if it is manifested we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every one that has this hope in him”, that is to say, in Christ, “purifies himself, even as he is pure”. So that the idea of what we are to be like, in eternity, has to be left. Yet things are made very real to us, in that when we shall see Him there is immediately the thought that we shall be like Him.
CFI Does that involve something beyond the thought of children?
JT I think it means sons, although John, as I said, does not mention sons, except in Revelation 21. “We shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is”. We shall be in His likeness; we shall be sons in character.
WmH Paul refers, in Romans 8, to the manifestation of the sons of God. That would correspond with it?
JT Quite so.
DJM Would the expression, “his body of glory”, in Philippians 3 correspond?
JT It would, and another thing is the word in Romans 8 as to the one thing that we still await, in order to our being glorified. It refers to sonship; we await adoption, or sonship.
AR Is there emphasis on the word ‘now’: “Beloved, now are we children of God”, in contrast to what we shall be?
JT Yes.
TT-s Has John in mind in speaking of “the Father” and “this hope” to stress the idea of origin and destiny in order to produce present results in us morally?
JT Well, our destiny, of course, would be sonship. What is in mind is the present, and there is emphasis on the word now. “Now are we children of God”. We shall not remain children eternally, [p. 438] I apprehend.
CAI Would you say a little to help us in regard to the connection of eternal life with the children of God? John says in chapter 1: “The eternal life, which was with the Father”. Are family relationships involved in this? It would be seen in the Lord Jesus as He was here. Then that life, the eternal life, is now for us to enter into. Is it connected with the Father in regard to us too?
JT I do not think it is. Our position as children down here refers to derivation; of course, from God, but it is not the thought of eternal purpose. It is not the thought of sonship. It says: “Now are we children of God”, but what we shall be has to be awaited till we see the Lord as He is. It is as if that great thought is reserved, showing how much there is reserved, and then the present is enough, as it were, and more than enough, to cause us joy. “See what love the Father has given to us, that we should be called the children of God”. It is the present time, but it is enough to cause joy, and that is in keeping with the epistle.
JC-S Is John’s family confined to the earth for the moment?
JT I think so. Therefore we are the objects of the care of God. That is one of the features of the epistle, and it is to encourage us into satisfaction with what we are brought into, according to this epistle.
Ques Would this hope have some definite effect on us, in the thought of purifying?
JT It is hope in Christ. It ought to have an effect upon us like other things, for the idea is to effect a present result. Even the possession of eternal life is a present result. “See what love the Father has given to us, that we should be called the children of God”, but then in John 3 we have the idea of eternal life as the evidence of the love. The love that God has for us is evidenced in the epistle [p. 439] in that we should be children, but in the gospel in that we should have eternal life.
WmH In John 1 he refers to those who were born of God: “who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh’s will, nor of man’s will, but of God”. They had the right to take the place of the children of God.
JT That is a present result, “Who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh’s will, nor of man’s will, but of God” is a present result. It is not sonship.
WmH So that John would develop the features that belong to the children of God; they are marked by love.
JT That is the great point, that we are the children of God. We may come in for suffering, because we are of God, we are derived of God and God loves us, and the devil, of course, would attack us; hence the constant use of the word ‘devil’ or ‘Satan’ in John’s writings. The immediate efforts of the devil against the saints are in mind.
WmH The generation of God-His children, are in opposition, are they not, to the children of the wicked one?
JT Just so. So that we have, in verse 7, “Let no man lead you astray; he that practises righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that practises sin is of the devil; for from the beginning the devil sins. To this end the Son of God has been manifested, that he might undo the works of the devil. Whoever has been begotten of God does not practise sin, because his seed abides in him, and he cannot sin”. Wonderful statement: “he cannot sin”. This must be, as we have said, an abstract thought, “He cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God. In this are manifest the children of God and the children of the devil”. So the two families, so to [p. 440] speak, are in evidence. The children of God and the children of the devil.
JC-S Would the features of the divine nature in the family really be the Father’s features?
JT I would think so.
Rem Teaching in this abstract manner seems to be much more challenging than historical allusions in which things are mixed up. Here what is of God is absolutely separate from what is of the devil.
JT Do you not think that God is entitled to use the abstract idea to bring out what is in His mind, and what He is effecting in us. It is in order that we shall be sure of things, and be able to fall back on certainty. The abstract idea is the most positive certainty.
HB What is the point in his stressing righteousness?
JT Because it is of God. To be righteous is a feature which belongs to the family of God; it is “as he is righteous”. “He” would be Christ, of course, showing how the divine Persons may be interchanged in thought.
FJF It says of the Lord that He loved righteousness.
JT Just so. And “hated lawlessness”. What a thought that is for our times! Trade unions and all that sort of thing are so rampant, and the idea of righteousness is cast to the winds by many people. The idea of Magna Carta is cast to the winds too, and notwithstanding the boasted rights of Britons, a man is not allowed to earn his living, even though able to do so. Unrighteousness is rampant in all these associations. Therefore the saints have to suffer; it is a time of suffering, as it is now in Australia in a special way.
Rem You might call these associations the works of the [p. 441] devil.
JT I do not think we should hesitate to say that. God is acting against the thing. It is so rampant, and so open, that God is acting against it. The question now is whether the brethren are going to take sides with God in acting against it, because the great apostasy which is coming in is to be marked by it.
Ques Do you not think that the time we are in calls for a review of all kinds of associations, directorships of companies with worldly men, and partnerships, and professional associations?
JT I would go to the worst features first, and see if we cannot arouse our consciences as to it. When murder takes place, you have to deal with the worst features: a murderer is of the devil, you know, directly of the devil, and these associations I am alluding to have murder behind them.
JC-S So the devil really expresses himself in that way in such associations. Murder is really the expression of his character.
JT Just so, and men go as far as to murder, taking away a man’s living, for the sake of forcing him to join what he abhors; but God is taking a hand against that. I would say He is showing His hand against it in the different parts of the earth, but especially in America and in Australia.
AR What would you say about associations which might not be murderous?
JT Keep them last. Keep them under the last heading, for if it is a question of murder, I think we should base, as it were, all that we have to say on that, because it is directly of the devil.
Ques Is it in principle “Hades’ gates”?
JT Quite so. It is comforting that those gates shall not prevail against the assembly, showing the power there is in the assembly. There is no family in earth or in heaven greater than the [p. 442] assembly.
AR What I was thinking was that while associations may not be murderous, the principle of association with unbelievers would be the same.
JT Well, if it is so. Let us deal with the thing that we know is of the devil directly, and that is trade unionism. In New York we have had to withdraw from eighteen persons because they elected to remain with the trade unions. They elected to do that instead of being true to the fellowship of God’s Son. That is what the thing comes to, but God has come in and rescued nearly half of them, although there are about eight remaining. This trade unionism is so patently of the devil that we had better deal with that.
RH The idea of violence and murder come out in Cain.
JT Quite so. That is where the thing begins.
FJF Does all this bring out the great dignity that God connects with His people? I was thinking of that word in John, that those to whom the word of God came, were called gods (John 10: 34); they were so distinguished.
JT Quite so, and the Lord says of that word, that the scripture cannot be broken. So the question of righteousness is what enters into all this. The Lord said, “It becometh us to fulfil all righteousness”; not one part of it, but all of it.
Ques Is the only way we can fulfil righteousness to allow the Spirit to have His place with us and lead us where He will?
JT Just so. There are three things mentioned in John 16, that the Spirit would do and righteousness comes in there. “But I say the truth to you, It is profitable for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go I will send him to you. And having, come, he will bring demonstration to the world, of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they [p. 443] do not believe on me; of righteousness, because I go away to my Father, and ye behold me no longer; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged” (verses 7 - 11). Therefore the Spirit is the power for all this; He is the power to bring demonstration, which is a public thing. The Lord would bring demonstration in among the brethren as to all these matters, and we certainly should begin at murder. If a thing is murderous, we should stress it. The Spirit would convict us, and convict all men of this terrible thing called unionism.
WmH He says in the end of verse 8, chapter 3, “The Son of God has been manifested, that he might undo the works of the devil”. Would that be a subjective thing in the saints?
JT Quite so. These works are in trade unionism above all things, because it is depriving men of the means of living and robbing them of the enjoyment of christian fellowship. But God has taken in hand to meet them, and it is a great comfort that He has. The point with us now is getting things into our souls, the young people especially, and then taking a stand against what is of the devil. The devil is openly spoken of, and it is a question of our taking a stand against that, wherever it appears.
TT-s So it speaks a good deal in the chapter of what we do, as well as what Satan does, or Cain.
JT We have come down to verse 10-”In this are manifest the children of God and the children of the devil. Whoever does not practise righteousness is not of God, and he who does not love his brother. For this is the message which ye have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another: not as Cain was of the wicked one, and slew his brother; and on account of what slew he him? because his works were wicked, and those of his brother righteous. Do not wonder, brethren, if the world hate [p. 444] you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren”. That is to say the brethren are brought into peculiar view here. “He who does not love his brother abides in death. Every one that hates his brother is a murderer”. We are thus not left in darkness at all as to this matter of a murderer, and where it lies; it is of the devil. The Lord says of the devil in John’s gospel, that he was a murderer from the beginning.
AR Would you say something as to the word “practise”? It comes in quite frequently. What would be the bearing of that word, do you think?
JT I think it is a continuous thing. It is not an isolated thing, which might happen to any of us, but a continuous thing, I suppose that is what is meant.
Ques Would it link up with the word in Revelation 19: “It was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and pure; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints”?
JT Very good. “Righteousnesses” is the plural word, and the assembly is clothed with that which is made up of acts of righteousness, and it is called fine linen.
SB In the previous chapter provision is made for those who sin, but in this chapter we are told those who practise sin are of the devil.
JT We have to go by the context. Scripture has to be read contextually, and we must examine words, and see if there is any correspondence. They can be examined and compared and a difference made between them.
WmH Here it is a question of practising sin; is that what is characteristic of the person?
JT Quite so.
RMcK Does the statement in chapter 5; “He is the true God and eternal life”, set out the thought for us objectively, in that idolatry and lawlessness [p. 445] disappear before the Lord? Is that the setting out of the truth objectively?
JT The fifth chapter is really the most important, in a sense, in all the epistles. It is a remarkable statement, that “He is the true God and eternal life”. Then we are told to keep ourselves from idols, for they are as bad as anything else. The Lord Himself is said here to be the true God, but in John 17 the Father is said to be the true God, so that we have to compare those two things.
WmH It says in verse 14, “We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren”, and then in the next verse, “ye know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him”. It would seem as if eternal life is connected with the loving of the brethren.
JT Yes, clearly, and that a murderer is outside of it. He is hopeless; he belongs to the lake of fire: “no murderer has eternal life abiding in him”. It is a remarkable thing that that should be said. You might think it need not be said, but it is said, and it is to bring out what abides in us, and how the devil may be working.
JC-S It speaks in the end of the tenth verse of him “who does not love his brother”. Such a person is not of God, if he does not love his brother. The person who hates is seen to be a murderer, but even the absence of love is regarded as conclusive that the person is not of God.
JT Quite so. It is remarkable what you do get in this epistle in the way of contrast, and what the Lord really means in all that we had this afternoon, and have now this evening, is to get the young people to face all these things. There is so much abroad to defile the young, and to teach very terrible things, that the Lord would impress upon us that we must judge things according to what they really are.
[p. 446] The assembly introduces us into the blessedness of God and the service of God, and it is important that the youth should be in it. Many of them coming into it at a very early age, some as young as eight or nine years of age, and it is an immense thing that parents should have in mind to bring their children up with a judgment of all these terrible things that are mentioned in this epistle.
TT-s A new realm is opened up in verse 14, to which we would have access, in contrast to what we find in the world, “passed from death to life”. Would it suggest that there is another sphere opened to us?
JT Among the brethren, so that eternal life really is among the brethren. The assembly is the sphere of eternal life at the present time, and we are to lay hold of it.
AA-n Is it significant that the word for ‘know’ in verse 14 is the word for ‘conscious knowledge’? Before this we have had the word for ‘objective knowledge’, but now, as coming into the sphere of the brethren, it is conscious knowledge. Is that right?
JT And it bears on the great truth that the Lord is bringing before us, namely the Spirit, the presence of the Spirit here in the assembly. Although we say sometimes on earth, yet it is not strictly on earth, it is in the assembly. That is where the Spirit is, and therefore we get eternal life in the assembly.
RH Would verse 14 help us to be assured that we have the Spirit. “We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren”. If there is love for the brethren, is that evidence that we have the Spirit?
JT Quite so. We often say if there is a young person who wants to break bread, and to be with us in the service of God, the challenge must be, has he [p. 447] or she got the Spirit? As Paul said, “Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?” That is the great question if there be any thought of a person coming into the fellowship; the Spirit must be with them, and in them.
AR It says that the fruit of the Spirit includes “love”, so you would say that if a person has love for the brethren it would be the result of the Spirit in them.
JT Quite so. It is a very good test, I would say, as to persons seeking fellowship. Have they received the Holy Spirit? Let the challenge be brought home to them, and let the parents know it too, and let them answer for it.
RH Would you make that test a historical matter or a question of the evidence of it in the person more?
JT In the person, I would say. John would say that here, it is a question of what you have abiding in you. So we may well say we call on all that is within us to praise God. That is a right statement, for it is what is within us. Therefore when we come together to the breaking of bread, the question is what is within us. What are we? We have to think of the saints first when we sit down together, and what their character is, and what their history may be. The Lord is looking at them from that point of view.
CFI Would you say that the enjoyment of life involves the brethren, and love for the brethren?
JT Certainly. Life is love, and we might say it is an interchangeable expression. Love is life and life is love. That is what I would say.
CFI Psalm 133 confirms that. “There hath Jehovah commanded the blessing, life for evermore”, where the brethren are dwelling together in unity.
JT Just so. So that we have what is seen in this chapter, verse 18, “Children, let us not love [p. 448] with word, nor with tongue, but in deed and in truth. And hereby we shall know that we are of the truth, and shall persuade our hearts before him-that if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, we have boldness towards God, and whatsoever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments, and practise the things which are pleasing in his sight”. So there is victory within sight of any one of us. There may be something to challenge your heart, and to condemn it, but God is greater than that. The thing is to measure up your heart with God, for He knows all things, so that we can get rest in our hearts in that sense in the presence of God. “Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, we have boldness towards God, and whatsoever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments, and practise the things which are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, that we believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and that we love one another, even as he has given us commandment. And he that keeps his commandments abides in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit which he has given to us”. The Spirit therefore is brought into great evidence in these passages in a subjective sense.
JC-S All that is presented in that way is not valid without the Spirit.
JT That is what I would say. The desire to break bread cannot be accepted except there is clear evidence that the Spirit has been received.
FJF And I suppose one of the marks that they love the brethren would be that they attend the meetings.
JT Very good, and the fathers and mothers should see that they attend the meetings. They see [p. 449] that they attend the school, of course, because, you might say, their livelihood may be dependent on the schooling they get, but what about God? What about the meetings? What about divine claims?
Rem Does that not require that we who are in fellowship should avail ourselves of every coming together, sisters and brothers alike?
JT Very good; sisters and brothers alike. The necessity of sisters being present at all our meetings has come before us already within the past ten days, but not, of course, at the care meeting. The question is whether the care meeting is a designation that attached to the early christians, or whether they did not rest rather on eldership. Eldership therefore must come more into view than it is at present. The first reference to eldership, in the plural sense, is in Acts 14, it is not one elder, but elders in every assembly.
Ques Are you suggesting that we put too much weight on the care meetings?
JT I think we do, and it has gradually moved into the place of the assembly. It has done so very much in certain places.
JC-S In stressing eldership, are you thinking of experience and moral authority?
JT Quite so. That is why we have twenty-four of them in Revelation 4. It is referring back to David’s regime. We have twenty-four elders and four living creatures. That is to, say, the idea of experience with God first, twenty-four times; and then life, the living creatures, four times. Eldership thus has the greater place in that sense.
WmH Would you get a sample care meeting in Acts 15, when it says, “the apostles and the elders were gathered together to see about this matter”?
JT Very good. They were seeing about it, but the assembly comes into it at the end. It comes into it at the beginning too, for they were received by the [p. 450] assembly, and then at the end the whole matter was ratified by the assembly and the Holy Spirit had to do with it too. Would you confirm all that, please, from the scripture.
WmH In Acts 15, verse 3, it says, “And they caused great joy to all the brethren. And being arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the assembly”.
JT That is what I meant. “They were received”, which is a very touching occurrence. It is a nice thing to see the assembly receiving, and now here in Glasgow I suppose nearly all the brethren are receiving someone into their houses, where they are showing hospitality, and that is a great matter. It is very nice and glorious to see the number of brethren who are being entertained by the brethren. It is a great opportunity for love to be actually working amongst us.
WmH It says in verse 6, “the apostles and the elders were gathered together to see about this matter”, then when they arrived at the judgment it says in verse 22, “Then it seemed good to the apostles and to the elders, with the whole assembly, to send chosen men from among them with Paul and Barnabas to Antioch”.
JT So that whilst you have the apostles and elders and James and Peter, you have also the whole assembly involved.
WmH Then you have further reference in verse 28, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us”. The Holy Spirit is brought in too.
JT Quite so.
SG In relation to eldership, should matters be in the hands of elders even before they come into the care meeting?
JT Very likely, because God is showing His interest in and approval of elders. So in Nehemiah 8, the first reference is to a large group of saints coming [p. 451] together to listen to Ezra, and this is followed by the second day, when the elders, those of experience and knowledge, had the first place. There are no sisters mentioned at all on the second day, so that what we are saying now is just to stress the necessity for eldership, that is to say, experience with God in the matter of administration in the assembly.
GD Does not John write his second and third epistles as an elder?
JT He does. He addresses an elect lady too, showing the respect he had for the sisters.
DJM Paul in writing to Philippi says, “To all the saints in Christ Jesus ... with the overseers and ministers”.
JT All that is important, showing how matters stood at the beginning according to Scripture. The Scriptures themselves must be the test of everything as it comes up.
FJF It says in Revelation 7: 13, “And one of the elders answered, saying to me, These who are clothed with white robes, who are they, and whence came they? And I said to him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me ...” and so on. Would that show that the elder is looked upon as having knowledge?
JT Quite so. He is asked questions, and the elders run right through to chapter 19 of Revelation, showing how important they are in the mind of God. There are twenty-four of them, not twelve, but twenty-four.
Ques Might there be cases of sin which the elders might feel it is not necessary to make public?
JT Yes, I have had to do with that myself, and felt it to be of God, dealing with cases of that kind and adjusting them according to Galatians 6, which reads, “If even a man be taken in some fault, ye who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering thyself lest thou also be tempted”. That is not an assembly matter, it is a matter for elders, for those who are spiritual. ‘Spiritual’ there is, you might say, a synonym for eldership. Would you say that?
Rem Yes, I would say it fully, but I do not think this is much understood.
JT Well, I think you are right; I am glad you brought it up. According to the verse which has just been read in Galatians 6, the fault has not overtaken the man, but he is taken in the fault. He is taken in the fault, and therefore it may be very serious.
AR Would you differentiate between sins, feeling that one might be more serious than another?
JT There is no differentiation there. The sin is there, and the man has to be restored. It does not say, If ye can restore him; it implies that spiritual people will restore him; they will do it, “Ye who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering thyself lest thou also be tempted”. And so we have a similar passage in James 5: “Is any sick among you? let him call to him the elders of the assembly”. Notice, the elders of the assembly, “and let them pray over him”, and then it says, “if he be one who has committed sins, it shall be forgiven him”.
AR I think what you have said is most important, but I have a very strong feeling that many cases have been brought to the assembly which could have been dealt with according to Galatians 6.
JT Quite so. The very worst things can be forgiven: Peter’s were forgiven, anyway, although he denied the Lord Jesus.
EBMcC Must it be plural? “Ye who are spiritual”.
JT Well, apparently; that is what it says. They are spiritual, and eldership implies [p. 453] that.
JC-S And would the restoration of the person involve self-judgment on his part?
JT Surely. Because another thing comes in there, and that is what we have had in the second chapter of John’s epistle. That is to say, the Patron is with the Father, not with God but with the Father. Things can thus be adjusted, because the Patron, that is to say, the Paraclete, is with the Father. And then, in addition, we have the Holy Spirit here. With Christ in heaven and the Holy Spirit here, surely we can have everything settled.
JC-S So that, if the person judges himself, he is dissociated from the sin, is he not?
JT Quite so; if he judges himself. It says, “if any one sin, we have a patron with the Father”. Surely if the Advocate is acting in heaven there would be self-judgment. The first thing He would do, would be to bring about self-judgment.
JSE Would the case of David with Nathan in 2 Samuel 12 be typical of this?
JT I would think so, because Nathan says, “Jehovah has also put away thy sin”. David had confessed it, but Nathan said, ‘The Lord has put it away’; the Lord did that. It was a terrible sin; it was murder and other things, but the word is, “Jehovah has also put away thy sin”. Nevertheless, the government of God pursued the thing, although the forgiveness was there.
WmH Sometimes when a person is restored we hold reserves against such even after he is supposed to be restored and forgiven.
JT That is not right. The Lord says. Forgive him “seventy times seven”. The Lord knows better than we do. There is a great deal of that, holding things back. Sometimes I have heard of it, in certain parts of the world, where things are held back for years, and a certain committee appointed to look after it until it is settled, and perhaps it never is [p. 454] settled. The thing ought to be settled at once, because heaven has plenty of means, and earth has plenty of means, and the assembly, too, enters into it.
JC-S Does it not really amount to such persons being put on probation, instead of being forgiven?
JT Quite so. Look at the means that heaven has in the sense of a Patron with the Father, and look at the means that earth has in the Holy Spirit down here, and then the assembly added to that! The assembly operates in the power of the Holy Spirit, so that all these things should be settled. Why should they not be?
HW What would you say in regard of a case where one would go and identify himself in the breaking of bread with those who are not going on with the truth? Is not the fellowship involved, and does not the assembly necessarily come into the forgiveness of such a case as that?
JT That would be right.
HW I mean elders would hardly overlook or forgive a sin like that without it coming before the saints.
JT When a thing becomes public the assembly has to be called into it, because there is so much importance attached to the assembly by heaven. The Lord said, “Whatsoever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be bound in the heavens, and whatsoever thou mayest loose on the earth shall be loosed in the heavens”, Matthew 16: 19. And also, “Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained”, John 20: 23. The assembly therefore has a great place in heaven, and nothing should be allowed to pass it.
HW Such a thing would be rather different from moral defection.
JT [p. 455] Well, where there are secret matters as in Galatians 6 and in James 5, we have the authority of Scripture that these things should be dealt with, privately, as you might say.
AR You are suggesting how a matter might be dealt with and not made public.
JGH The word ‘fault’ is used in Galatians. What would be the measure or extent of the sin?
JT What does the scripture say? Whatever it is, it is definite. That is what I would say. However bad it is, it is dealt with, because if the man deals with it himself, in self-judgment, heaven deals with him in grace.
JGH What would be conveyed in the word ‘fault’?
JT Evidently it is something very bad. It is not that he is just overtaken by the fault, but taken in it. So that he is the man that is taken in the fault, and spiritual persons ought to know it.
JC-S The woman in John 8 was taken in a fault, was she not?
JT She certainly was, and the Lord says, “Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more”. It was not plenary, she had to see to it that she was not to sin again. But then the Lord says, “Neither do I condemn thee”, as if He was not there for that.
Rem What you are saying strikes at many long-established rules and customs in the minds of brethren, not everywhere, but in certain places.
CAI Does it mean that the investigations which may be carried out in regard to cases of sin should be with a view to restoration rather than ultimate public exposure or judgment in the assembly?
JT With a view to restoration, quite so. That is the end you have in mind, not condemnation, but [p. 456] restoration.
RH What is the bearing of the word ‘restore’ on a brother’s service if he has been one who has served publicly?
JT The word is really ‘mended’ as in Matthew 4: 21. The man is mended, he is set up as he used to be. Whatever he used to be, he is just equal to it. That is what is meant, I think.
RA There has been a good bit of exercise about it as to whether a brother is to be immediately restored to his place in the service. Some have thought that he should be treated with some reservation for some time after.
JT That is wrong, I am sure. The idea is to mend the man, so to speak, and that would mean that the man is made whole as he used to be; so that he is able to do the same thing as he always did. He is set up again. The passage in 1 Corinthians 1: 10 and the passage in Matthew 4: 21 would show that. It is the idea of mending.
Rem Had Paul that in mind when he said, “Take Mark, and bring him with thyself, for he is serviceable to me for ministry”. Is he not one who had been mended?
JT Quite so. He is mended, back in his old place.
SG Would the reference to Peter being restored illustrate that? Six weeks later, after he had sinned, he was serving as the first brother.
JT It illustrates what can be done. It is just a question of what can be done, on account of the wonderful system we are in. How abundant grace is from the divine side, and why not from our side?
Ques Does the instruction in Leviticus 14 help in that matter, in connection with the cleansing of the leper and the anointing with the remainder of the oil?
JT The instruction is very plain there, and very extensive, and it is very wonderful that it is there.
[p. 457] One thing to be noted before we proceed is that there is always a priest there, and the priest will always forgive if he can. The idea is to be a priest, and I believe those who are spiritual in Galatians 6 are priests characteristically.