THE MEDIATORIAL SERVICE OF CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT (1)
THE MEDIATORIAL SERVICE OF CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT (1)
JT It should be remarked that the purpose is not to deal with the whole book of the Revelation, but the beginning and the end of it, and especially with the seven assemblies. The primary reason is because the Lord is seen here in a mediatorial sense more fully than elsewhere. It is said, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time”, 1 Timothy 2: 5, 6. The thought was that this book affords certain indications, or clarity, as to the mediatorial services of the Lord Jesus, and, of course, accompanying these are the mediatorial services of the Holy Spirit. In Mark 13: 32 the Lord distinguishes between Himself and the Father, in saying that certain things were held in the Father’s thoughts and counsels. It is as if the Lord Jesus takes the place of not knowing them, yet He is Himself God over all, as verse 8 of this chapter shows, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty”. Although He is God Himself, and never less, yet, at the same time He takes a lower place in the mediatorial realm, or the mediatorial economy, as we rightly call it. Then there is John’s place in the service, according to verse 9: “I John”. He stands in a certain relation to us as our brother, saying, “your brother and fellow-partaker”, and he speaks of himself and how the Revelation came to him as he was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day. We are thus reminded of what is [p. 113] suitable to us as brethren, the state of being in the Spirit on the Lord’s day. Then all that entering into the idea of an economy, and of the Lord’s own rights in the assembly, and at the same time, there are the Lord’s own rights in that He speaks authoritatively to the assembly, and then the Spirit is seen as saying things too, without specifying what the things are, “what the Spirit says to the assemblies”.
AJG Is the mediatorial position of the Lord Jesus emphasised in that the Revelation is said to be given to Him by God?
JT Just so. He is in that position, which implies a certain relative inferiority. At the same time we hold clearly in mind that He is God; that is, He belongs to the Deity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
JAP Is the thought of the mediatorial position an eternal one?
JT I do not think it has been, although I am not prepared to say much about that, but it would look as if things are put on a mediatorial basis. Eternity is put on a mediatorial basis on the ground of redemption, so that I should say in general that that is true, and that we shall be on that basis eternally. Everything will be in the hands of the Son, for “the Father loves the Son and has given all things to be in his hand”.
AJG Do you mean that things will be on the mediatorial basis to all eternity, looking forward, but have not been on that basis in past eternity?
JT Quite so, because things now hinge on the incarnation. The incarnation is a fact now, and this book assumes it: “Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him”. God gave it to Him, and that would coincide with the verse in Mark 13.
Ques Is the mediatorial system designed so that all that is in the mind of God for men should be made available to [p. 114] them?
JT That is what I would say. We cannot exclude angels, but the redemptive work of Christ refers to men. The angels that fell remain in that state and do not get restored, but there are others and they are called the elect angels.
Ques I thought you might say something more as to eternity being held on the basis of redemption. How does the purpose of God come in there?
JT We have the idea of eternity attached to the purpose of God. His eternal purpose, and everything evidently is to be based on that purpose. The angels (see Ephesians 3: 10, 11) come into it happily and freely in this book even, as they do elsewhere, but the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus clearly has allusion to man.
FJF We speak of redeemed creation. Would that be understood only in a limited sense?
JT I would say that, in a limited sense. At the same time we have in Genesis l: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”, and then in John 1 it says. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... All things received being through him, and without him not one thing received being which has received being”. So that all was made to fit into the redemptive work of Christ.
Ques Does scripture not clearly show that we are brought into sonship on the basis of redemption?
JT I think it does.
AJG I think it would help if you would add a further word with regard to the question as to how redemption fits in with the purpose of God which was formed before any question of sin arose.
JT Well, that would have to be spoken of as it is presented in Scripture. There is the eternal purpose of God, meaning that it is a matter really entering into time. Although the word eternal might be assumed to mean something different, yet it does [p. 115] not. It is a question of what is in the mind of God in an eternal sense. Eternal sonship is not a thought which we get in Scripture; the Lord is Son in time, but as to His Person He is eternal.
SMcC When we are engaged with what is linked with new creation and the purpose of God in assembly service, would it be right and comely to bring in thoughts connected with redemption, or what flows out of redemption?-for instance, in Mr. Darby’s hymn, ‘O Mind divine, so must it be’, finishing with ‘We should be part, through Jesus’ blood’ (88:5) We have tended to leave that out, as linked with the redemptive side rather than with the side of new creation and the purpose of God.
JT Well, of course, new creation assumes that there is such a thing as creation, only it is a new one. It links on with the idea of creation in Genesis 1, so that we have things new.
PL Would the allusion to redemption in Ephesians, the great epistle of divine purpose, link the two together? It says in chapter 1, “The Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession to the praise of his glory”. Is not this thought of God’s purpose linked up there with redemption?
JT Clearly, “Redemption of the acquired possession”.
Ques Would you say that redemption is the sacrificial basis upon which God gives effect to His purpose?
JT Quite so, sacrificial is good.
JC-S Do you think that redemption is involved in the scripture, “In whom we have also obtained an inheritance, being marked out beforehand according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his own will”?
JT Quite so. Everything is “according to”, it is continuous. The whole scheme of God is continuous,
[p. 116] beginning with Himself. It is a question of His will and His counsel and His love, and His power, of course.
JC-S So would the working bring it into time?
JT Yes, it is brought into time; incarnation belongs to time.
AM Does the idea of redemption bring in the thought of cost and value such as we might get in the expression, “to you therefore who believe is the preciousness”? Is what is secured through redemption in that way shown to be of added value on account of the cost?
JT Quite so. You mean the cost seen in the death of the Lord Jesus?
AM Yes, so that there is an added preciousness brought in.
Rem As to what is brought into time; in the first few verses of the epistle to the Hebrews you get a reference to the greatness of the Person and the only thing said to be done in time is the purification of sins, the greatness of the operation in time. I was thinking of the link there is between the side of purpose and the work, of necessity done in time, in regard of sins.
JT Quite so. “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son”, or “in Son”. It is God Himself speaking, and the speaking has in mind redemption, which was accomplished by the Son.
PHH Is the feature of what is eternal suggested in this title of God-who is? “Grace to you and peace from him who is”. I was wondering whether “him who is” was to impress us with the eternal Person, who is there.
JT It is the present tense, of course, and then “who was” is historical, and “who is to come” is future, [p. 117] or prophetical.
PHH Speaking about eternity, and what is eternal; is there the suggestion that the eternal God is here having relation to time?
JT Quite so.
PHH Would that put a great impress upon the mediatorial system which you have spoken of?
JT I think it does. Hebrews was intended for that. The epistle to the Hebrews was undoubtedly written by Paul, and it is to bring things out for the Hebrews so that they might come into christianity. The Person of the Son is thus stressed in the words, “hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds”. That is, things are all kept within that compass.
FJF Would you say that the love that prompted the counsel came to light in the sacrifice in the redemptive work?
JT Quite so. There must be the thought of sacrifice; God intended that. One of the Persons addicted Himself, speaking reverently, to do the work. It was by divine appointment, and He has done it, and in doing it He was forsaken of God. So the whole basis is the sacrifice of Christ, and it all endears Him to us everlastingly.
Ques Does Genesis 22 help in that respect, in that as soon as the sacrifice is offered God speaks of blessing in a wide-spread way, heavenly and earthly: “I will richly bless thee, and greatly multiply thy seed, as the stars of heaven, and as the sand that is on the sea-shore”?
JT Therefore it has become universal through Abraham. It is a question of God’s purpose, of course, and the chapter is wonderful in that sense. It is a question of the Father and the Son, typified by Abraham and Isaac, and then God is speaking to Abraham of His purpose as to him. He is determined to bless through him, so that things are working [p. 118] out to us through Abraham in that sense, and not through Adam.
FCH Is that why it says in Hebrews that He took hold of the seed of Abraham?
JT Just so.
FJF I should like to ask if the Spirit had any part in the redemptive work, as it is written: “Who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God”.
JT Well, the Spirit was there, of course. The Son, as it were, used the Spirit, but the redemptive work was by the Son Himself. The Spirit was available to be used, as He is to us now, in wondrous grace and humility. The Lord Jesus offered Himself without spot to God by the eternal Spirit. It is a question of instrumentality, but as regards the actual redemptive work, it was done by one Person, and that was the Son.
Rem “Having made by himself the purification of sins”.
JT Quite so.
JC-S Is there any point in the service where we may look at the thought of purpose apart from the sin question, while still holding in our minds the redemptive thought?
JT I should not object to that much; we are keeping it in its proper limitations. The matter is in the hands of the three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; matters are kept in limitations, so to speak, and yet infinitude enters into everything. We are thus dealing with matters that we cannot fully understand, and cannot assume to understand fully. It is a question of what is written, and we go by that, not by what we may assume, or what we may think, or what we may feel even. When we come to matters that have to be attested it is a question of what is [p. 119] written.
JC-S The Scriptures must be the standard in all these matters.
JT Quite so, absolutely.
EuR In Colossians 1 and in Ephesians 1 we have: “In whom we have redemption”. It stands in the Person now?
JT Quite so. It is in the Person.
JAP How far is the thought of redemption brought in in connection with Christ’s love for the assembly, and His giving Himself for it?
JT Well, it is clearly there, “Christ also loved the assembly, and has delivered himself up for it”. Redemption is in mind. Many other things could be quoted to amplify that, but we should just confine ourselves to what is needed in view of getting through this chapter intelligently. We have first what is introductory in the opening verses, and then John himself addressing the assemblies, showing that apostolic feeling was there corresponding with the feelings of Christ, a beautiful thought. “John to the seven assemblies which are in Asia”, and so forth. Then he runs on to the thought of the love of Christ. “To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be the glory and the might to the ages of ages. Amen”. That is the finish of one subject, and then the next thing is the Lord’s own Person, and His coming, “Behold, he comes with the clouds”, I am only trying to confine what we are speaking of, as much as possible, to our chapter, so as not to go too far afield, and yet get light nevertheless on the book of Revelation.
HW Why is it that we have in this book greetings from the Spirit, in the form of the seven Spirits of God? It seems unique to Revelation.
JT It is a very beautiful thought. The number seven suggests the fulness. Of course, the book is [p. 120] symbolical almost throughout, and therefore we have to make allowance for symbols. The Spirit of God comes into the passage as, we might say, having part in the mediatorial position, as well as Christ Himself.
PHH Would you say a little more about the Spirit coming into the mediatorial position?
JT It is quite clear that He is. It says: “Grace to you and peace ... from the seven Spirits, which are before his throne”. So that the Spirit is in the position of mediatorship; He has part in it.
SMcC Have you any thought as to why He is mentioned before Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, in verse 5? Generally the Spirit comes after.
JT “From him who is, and who was, and who is to come”; that is God. Then the Spirit and then the Lord Jesus in His humility, as Man here, carrying out the will of God.
AJG Does the Spirit come before the Lord in this scripture because it is a question of God being here in the Spirit in support of the throne, and then Jesus Christ setting out in manhood the principle of faithfulness in suffering by which the rights of the throne are maintained.
JT Very good. So that we can now go on to the idea of what the Lord has done for us in making us priests unto God, “To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be the glory and the might to the ages of ages. Amen”. Well, we have come to the end there in that section. Then the next thing is. “Behold, he comes with the clouds”; that is a question of His coming personally in relation to the accomplishment of things and the administration in the future, in the millennium, I would say. “Behold, he comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they which have pierced him, and all the tribes of the land shall wail because of him”. So that He is now fully in our view, as the coming One, the One that is to set up everything, to set up the millennial day, and finish everything that God has in His mind to accomplish through redemption.
ETS Is that why John bursts out in this note of praise as soon as Jesus Christ is introduced, the One who has accomplished redemption and won our hearts?
JT Just so! You feel how suitable it is. Everything is so suitable, and all centring in Christ.
GHW Is this outburst of praise expressive of assembly response to the Lord Jesus?
JT I am not sure about that. The idea of the assembly would have to be put into it. Of course, there is assembly response, but I think we could find it later, in chapter 5.
JC-S It says: “To him who loves us”. It is not exactly said to be the assembly, is it?
JT It is more the personnel involved; that is, christians; John is going to speak to christians. Then verse 9 says, “I John, your brother and fellow-partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and patience, in Jesus, was in the island called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus”. We see John there who is the brother of the saints, I would say the assembly is purposely kept out of view, until the time comes for it, because, in fact, the assembly is about to be addressed by the Lord in a judicial way.
Ques Is the coming of the Lord in verse 7 a challenge to the whole creation?
JT “Every eye shall see him, and they which have pierced him, and all the tribes of the land ...” that is the universal idea.
FRS Why are you stressing the point [p. 122] of the brother?
JT Because of the expression, “your brother”. How comforting it is that John is our brother; one like that who had such a place with Christ. He is the disciple whom Jesus loved, although that does not appear here.
PHH Would John be a kind of sample of the brotherhood which is in the world, in a suffering position (1 Peter 5: 9)?
JT Just so. That is how he puts it, “Your brother and fellow-partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and patience, in Jesus”.
WW Would you say a word distinguishing between “the word of God” and “the testimony of Jesus”?
JT Well, the word of God is what God says. It is found in Hebrews 4, “For the word of God is living and operative, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and penetrating to the division of soul and spirit”. Then in John 1 the Lord Himself is called the Word. It is a question of what God says, although sometimes it applies to the Person. Whilst therefore it is a question of what is being said in John 1, it is more than that. It is the Person designated in that character, I think “the Word” covers the Person.
Ques Would not John taking the place of a brother tend to throw authority on the word of God?
JT I think the word would bring authority into our hearts, anyway. The word of God is what God says; it is the Logos. You might say it involves christianity; that is, what is being said by God, through Christ.
Ques Does the expression, “I John, your brother”, give a sympathetic touch?
JT Sympathy enters into John’s address to us, and how that ought to appeal to our own hearts! He was “in the island called Patmos, for the word of God”. He was there, in testimony, as [p. 123] a sufferer.
GCG You were stressing a little earlier the necessity for going by what is written. Are you connecting “the word of God” with what is written for us?
JT I am using the expression which is well known in Scripture. The Word of God is God Himself, of course, nothing less than that. Whether you apply it to Christ or to God, it is God Himself. But then it is a question too of what is set out in testimony in the dispensation into which we have come. It is the character of the testimony now, not what will be in the millennium; it is what is going on now. We are to have part in the word of God and to be formed by it.
GCG I was thinking that the word as coming to us would ever be substantiated by what is written. Have you that in mind?
JT I have, in measure, only I think we ought to keep to what is said in Scripture. In effect the Word of God is God Himself. Christ becomes it, and therefore it says of Him. “In the beginning was the Word”. It is a designation of Christ personally, but then the allusion is to what He spoke and what has come out through His speaking. The Spirit of God, of course, is involved in that, and therefore He has part in the mediatorial system into which we have come.
AJG Do you mean that the thought of “the word of God” is more than merely the expression of the mind of God, but God Himself coming out in revelation?
JT It is not only what is said, but what can be said, and all that enters into the dispensation into which we have come, showing the wonderful character of our dispensation. John has that in mind, and the Spirit of God has it in mind, and God Himself had it in mind when He gave to the Lord Jesus, in a mediatorial sense, this wonderful revelation; as it is said, the “Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to shew to his bondmen what must shortly take place”.
SMcC Would what the Spirit says to the assemblies be further unfoldings in connection with “the word of God”; that which may come out?
JT I doubt if there is much in this particular book of what is new in regard to revelation. What we are dealing with now, I believe, involves not only what the twelve said, or were given to say, but I believe Paul’s ministry is involved in this book. I am saying this, subject to what the brethren may think, but Paul’s ministry must be taken into account in the book of Revelation.
Ques The assemblies that are addressed are really Paul’s assemblies, are they not?
JT That is right.
LES So that the completing of the word of God would have this in mind?
JT Yes. That is the phrase that enters into it fully, “To complete the word of God”, Colossians 1: 25.
RW Has “the word of God” any connection with “made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father”? Is the word of God to come into expression through those who are priestly?
JT I would say so, because the word ‘priest’ would mean that we are in a condition suitable to have to say to God and to speak for God, on His behalf. I would say, therefore, that “and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father”, involves the mind of God, and that God’s mind was that His communications should be through priests.
Ques Does it involve, “If any one speak-as oracles of God; if any one minister-as of strength which God supplies; that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom is the glory and the might for the ages of ages. Amen”, 1 Peter 4: [p. 125] 11?
JT Quite so. Therefore it is a question of God, and the wonderful dispensation that is unfolded to us, through Christ mediatorially. We are in that now. It is a question of God and what He is saying to us, and what can be said and will be said, too. It is a wonderful thing that we are here today, and we have the word of God in our hands, so to speak, and the word of God, in that sense, would be what He says. It is a question of what God is saying to us, and what He is ready to say. Of course, that would all come out not only through Christ, but through the Spirit as well, because the communications would be largely through the Spirit. Every scripture is inspired of God, and, in that way, the word ‘inspiration’ implies the Spirit, and what He does.
EAL Would it help us to see that this revelation was given to Jesus Christ by God, and then in verse 3 we have, “Blessed is he that reads”; would that refer to the written words of the Spirit? I was thinking of the Lord’s word in John 16, “I have yet many things to say to you; but ye cannot bear them now. But when he is come, the Spirit of truth, he shall guide you into all the truth”. Would the things the Lord has in mind be the written voice of the Spirit?
JT Quite so. Although the word ‘voice’, of course, is not properly connected with writing, yet the expression ‘the written voice’ is quite intelligible and good too. So we have the voice of the prophets, which is what they say, or have said. And so it is what God may say or what He is saying; and what we are dealing with now, is what He is saying.
Ques Would the statement, “God is in you of a truth” bring the authority and power of the word of God into our prophetic meetings?
JT It would, fully. The man that comes in at Corinth would fall down and say so, that “God is in you of a truth”. He reports it, and I hope some of the reports today will be such. It is the word of God, really, and we should not hesitate when we know it is so.
JC-S So that the value of this occasion would be that our minds and our affections are ready to be impressed with the word of God.
JT That is right. Then it is “the testimony of Jesus”. That is to say, the Lord has His part in it, for it is what His testimony is. So we may well proceed to the part we did not say much about, namely verse 8. The One speaking there is God, of course, “I am the Alpha and the Omega”. That refers to speaking, or to language, and the allusion is to God in the sense of One who speaks, or who says things, “He who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty”. Then the next thing is what we have already been saying about John, and then we come to what the Lord says to him. John says, “I became in the Spirit on the Lord’s day”. Let us notice that; we are dealing with the Lord’s day, “and I heard behind me a great voice as of a trumpet, saying, What thou seest write in a book”. Now, it is a question of writing; “and send to the seven assemblies: to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea”. There we come to the end of another section of what John was to write. We have clearly set before us who John is, he is related to us, peculiarly, and he is the one whom Jesus loved, and now he is speaking to us, and telling us what he heard, and he speaks about the Lord Himself. He says to him, “What thou seest write in a book, and send to the seven assemblies”, so that we are now where the book can speak to us. By that I mean there is a word for us as to what John says, for he is the one whom the Lord is using in the unfolding of what is in His mind.
WC Would becoming “in the Spirit” be essential to hearing this voice?
JT It is the state we are in; exactly. He said he was “in the Spirit”, and that is the proper state either for ministering or for hearing.
CMM Would “I became in the Spirit” be something which John did?
JT Well, he is able to take that attitude. It is an action of his own, you might say. It is a state that he is coming to in the power of the Spirit. So that it is becoming to us on the Lord’s day.
PHH Does it involve power in John himself?
JT I think it does. It is inward power, involving what any of us may become, or what we may change to. John clearly changes here; he became something else; that is, he became “in the Spirit”.
Ques Would that be additional to the beautiful qualities that had shown themselves in him earlier, in his being a fellow-partaker in tribulation, and so on?
JT I think so.
Ques I was wondering whether it involved what was specific, in contrast to what may be characteristic?
JT Well, what is specific is seen in what he is becoming, something in which the Lord can use him. Then we proceed to verse 12; it says, “And I turned back to see the voice”. This shows that he is interested, which is another point. It is not to hear the voice, but to see it. That implies that he expects to see something, and that is often a very good thing when we come together. We not only expect to hear something, but to see something, because it is a question of what the saints are. They are beautiful.
FJF Is that what characterised Moses when he turned aside to see the great sight?
JT Just so, and he did see it, too.
SFP [p. 128] Whose is the voice?
JT I would think that it is the Lord Himself: “And I turned back to see the voice which spoke with me; and having turned, I saw seven golden lamps, and in the midst of the seven lamps one like the Son of man”. So that I would say the voice is the Lord’s own voice.
PHH Is there a suggestion of that in Isaiah 2? It says, “The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. And it shall come to pass in the end of days, that the mountain of Jehovah’s house shall be established on the top of the mountains”. Is the seeing of the word at all similar to seeing the voice?
JT Evidently he had in his mind what was to be seen. It was a great matter. May we always say that too; so that if we are at a meeting, such as this, and when we get home the sisters enquire about what was there, we have to say the things that we saw, and heard too. It is because we think of the brethren; we think of what they are, and how the Lord thinks of them, of course, and then we can say, Well, what did He say? Well, that is another thing. We have the idea of what we see and what we hear.
Rem Mary in the garden, in John 20, turned to see the voice that spoke with her.
JT Very good. It is all a question really of what is to be seen and heard, and how the Lord Himself comes into it, and how we get disclosures, and how we change our minds too. We very often change our minds, and we hope we shall change our minds about things that we once heard and we are not quite free about now, because that is what these meetings are for.
Ques Would the word in Malachi fit in, “Then they that feared Jehovah spoke often one to another; and Jehovah observed it, and heard”?
JT “And they shall be unto me a peculiar treasure, saith Jehovah of hosts”. The whole matter enters into this chapter we are dealing with.
JG Would seeing involve the divine presentation, and hearing the subjective answer?
JT Quite so. The hearing, of course, brings in more than the seeing, because it is a question of what may be inside. The Holy Spirit is in the believer, and, therefore, there is much more to be heard than there is to be seen.
LES Would you say that Ezekiel’s position as seen in his book and his name meaning ‘strength’ would fit in largely into this?
JT A good deal. That book is peculiar to what we are speaking of now. Of course, we all know that the book of Revelation is very much like what Ezekiel presents to us, but what is the specific thought in your mind?
LES He says: “This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of Jehovah. And when I saw, I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of one that spoke. And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak with thee. And the Spirit entered into me when he spoke unto me, and set me upon my feet; and I heard him that spoke unto me”.
JT The Spirit was speaking, and it was a conversational matter really between the prophet and the Spirit.
HW Would this matter of seeing and hearing underlie properly all true ministry? I was thinking of what the Lord says to Nicodemus in John 3. “We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen”. There is the seeing and the hearing brought to us in the power of the Spirit. John, in his epistle, enlarges upon it when he says: “That which we have seen and heard we report to you”.
[p. 130] The Lord Jesus seems to have ministered on that principle, and also His servants, the apostles.
JT Quite so. As we run down John 3, we get all these things. If we read fully a few more verses, perhaps we shall get a little more.
AJG It reads, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that which we know, and we bear witness of that which we have seen, and ye receive not our witness. If I have said the earthly things to you, and ye believe not, how, if I say the heavenly things to you, will ye believe? And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven”.
JT Well, that is wonderful: “The Son of man who is in heaven”. That is mysterious; it is mystery and what is presented as mysterious is one of the things we should keep closely before us. We cannot assume to know fully; we have just to look into it. We are only creatures, we are not divine, but we can just bow ourselves and be glad that we hear so much. There is a little more to say there, if you would kindly read it.
AJG “And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus must the Son of man be lifted up, that every one who believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal”.
JT That is the point that I was thinking about. In John 3 we are led up to life eternal, which implies redemption and the Spirit. We have the Spirit as well as being redeemed, because we cannot have life except by the Spirit.
HW John, in his epistle, speaks of that as something which he saw. He says. “The eternal life which ... has been manifested to us”.
JT Yes. That appears in John’s epistle.
[p. 131] Now we might go on from verse 17. We have seen the Lord Jesus Himself, in the section from verse 12, in His judicial character, dealing with the seven assemblies judicially. He is not building them up but, as it were, judging them. Then in verse 17 it says: “And when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead; and he laid his right hand upon me, saying, Fear not; I am the first and the last, and the living one, and I became dead, and behold, I am living to the ages of ages, [p. 132] and have the keys of death and of hades. Write therefore what thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to be after these. The mystery of the seven stars which thou hast seen on my right hand, and the seven golden lamps. The seven stars are angels of the seven assemblies; and the seven lamps are seven assemblies”. We thus have the whole matter now set out before us, so that we may proceed into it intelligently in the following readings. The Lord lays the whole matter open to us. He lays it open to John, and it is for us to take it in and ponder it, and then perhaps we would be able to help one another more fully.
PL In the presence of all the assembly sorrows, we have a model in John taking upon himself, in becoming humility, the grief of the whole position.
JT Quite so, “I fell at his feet as dead”. The Lord did not rebuke him. He was rebuked by the angel later, in similar circumstances, but the Lord does not rebuke him here. He accepts it, and it is very suitable that we, in our attitude towards the Lord, should accept the position humbly, and then the Lord says, “Fear not”, so that our hearts are assured. In this wonderful book, we are assured that the sufferings or the judgment are not for us; they are for others. Then it goes on: “I am the first and the last, and the living one; and I became dead, and behold, I am living to the ages of ages,
and have the keys of death and of hades”. And then the Lord tells him what he is to write, which is a good point for us. In any written ministry, let the Spirit of God tell us what to write.
LES There is an interesting footnote to the word ‘send’ in verse 11 which says, ‘have it written and sent:’ it is to be a complete thing done. Then we have, in verse 19, “Write therefore what thou hast seen”. Would that enter into the matter of completing the present ministry?
JT That is just what I was thinking, too, “Write therefore what thou hast seen, and the things that are”, (these are the classifications of the things to be written about) “and the things that are about to be after these”. And then the explanation; “The mystery of the seven stars which thou hast seen on my right hand, and the seven golden lamps. The seven stars are angels of the seven assemblies; and the seven lamps are seven assemblies”. So that the whole matter is stated in the first chapter.
Ques Verse 17 says, “He laid his right hand upon me”. Is that for strengthening him?
JT That is the idea, exactly. It is what the Lord is Himself, the impartation of the power that is in Him. John is to be a partaker of it.
Ques Is John like Daniel in the Old Testament, exemplifying the truth that the greatest love receives the greatest light?
JT Very good. He was the disciple whom Jesus loved, and the Lord is showing that He does love him. He is taking him up, in confidence, as one capable of writing such a book as this.
Rem Daniel is addressed as one greatly beloved.
JT Very good.