MAN (9)
[p. 153] MAN (9)
Genesis 37:2 - 30; Genesis 45:1 - 15; Genesis 48:8 - 14
JT The brethren will be aware that the ground to be covered is large, and that it has been thought well to look at the types first as to this great subject of Man, first mentioned in the first chapter of Genesis: “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” Genesis 1:26; and further it says, “and let them have dominion”. Here the woman, or Eve, would be included in the word “man”. And now as we have come to this point in the book of Genesis it is thought that we might link up Jacob with Joseph, that is to say, both together involving the love side, involving love as it is in God and as it in Christ and correspondingly in ourselves. So that we are brought into the circle of love, the love of the Father for the Son, and then the love of the saints one to another. Then particularly I thought we might see the remarkable intelligence that is developed in Jacob even to outstripping his son Joseph. He knew better than Joseph as to the persons that he was naming; he knew exactly what he was doing. So that the thought now will develop into the idea of intelligence in this great subject.
SW In speaking of the love between the Father and the Son, have you in mind John 17 where the Lord says, “Thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world”? John 17:24.
JT Just so, it is a question of the Father and the Son in the love that existed between them; and eternal life too is involved in that, the eternal life: “this is the eternal life, that they should know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent”, John 17:3.
JTJr John would fit in peculiarly with what you have mentioned in regard [p. 154] to love.
JT I thought that; of course we shall come to that in time. But the idea of the types seems to greatly facilitate the subject, so that we get the thing in type before we get it actually in the New Testament.
JTJr The reference already made to John 17 would fill out the thoughts that have been expressed. As you say, we need to see the types as laying the basis for understanding of what is in the gospels.
JT “Every scripture is divinely inspired, and profitable” 2 Timothy 3:16; so that the types will help us as we come to the New Testament.
ABP Does Joseph’s vest suggest the idea of what is inward — “In thee I have found my delight”? Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22.
JT You are stressing the idea of “in thee” as connected with the coat of many colours?
ABP Yes. I thought that the vest may suggest an inward matter more so than a cloak, for instance, and that, in type, it might be suggestive of what was in the Father’s remark: “In thee I have found my delight”.
JHE Speaking of intelligence, the apostle Paul says in Ephesians 3:3: “According as I have written before briefly, by which, in reading it, ye can understand my intelligence in the mystery of the Christ”, Ephesians 3:3. He would have us all to know that.
JT It is a great matter that a man like Paul should be apprehended as knowing; that he could say the right thing to instruct persons. He wanted them to know what he knew. It is very important, if we are seeking to serve the Lord, that we might know things. And so the Lord said, “That they should know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent”, John 17:3.
AR We noticed earlier that Abraham loved Isaac, his only son; but here Israel is said to love Joseph more than all his sons; he has a special place among his brethren.
Rem The scripture says: “These are the generations of Jacob”, and then it speaks about Joseph.
JT We must wait several chapters before we get the generations as a whole. Joseph comes first in the whole matter. And that is the reason why the thought is to link up Joseph with his father; it is the father and the son, the relationship in which love is seen, and in which it operates. God waited for Christ. You marvel that He has waited so long for Christ to come in.
FHL Does the first verse show the merging of the idea of Jacob and Joseph? It says, “Generations of Jacob. Joseph, being seventeen years old, fed the flock”. Distinctive features come to light immediately do they not?
JT Just so. You marvel at God’s delay, and at the recency in which man has appeared. He had other creatures long before man; we cannot say when angels were created, or other creatures, but we can say historically when man came into being; and he has the first place now in the whole matter because the Son has become man.
SCM It says in verse 2, “And Joseph brought to his father an evil report of them”, Do you think there is some suggestion in that of what is said of the Lord in Hebrews 1 that He loved righteousness, and hated lawlessness? It says, “Therefore God, thy God, has anointed thee with oil of gladness above thy companions”, Hebrews 1:9. The Father has anointed Him.
JT “Therefore” — that is the word; that is why the Father has anointed Him.
RDG Does the statement that Joseph was seventeen years of age suggest that he matured early into manhood?
JT Quite so. The facts show that clearly; he developed into manhood early. Therefore, we are enjoined to “quit yourselves like men; be strong”, 1 Corinthians 16:13. Manhood is needed in the testimony.
ABP Is “the word of the Lord” linked on with Joseph in a distinct way, through the dreams and through what we are told in the psalm, that “the word of the Lord tried him”? Would that be another feature of manhood that we should consider?
JT Yes. When we come to the Psalms we come to experience, experience with God, and with the brethren too; that is the idea of the Psalms. And so, in the first chapter of Hebrews much is quoted from the Psalms. It is a question of experience; experience with God of course. In what we have now before us in these early chapters of Genesis experience begins to show itself.
DP Would manhood involve the judgment of evil and the withdrawal from it?
JT Just so.
Rem It is interesting to see that Joseph was in service at the age of seventeen.
JT And so Joseph comes in immediately in the generations, but we have to wait for the others. “These are the generations of Jacob. Joseph”, he is the first one mentioned, and it goes on to say, “being seventeen years old, fed the flock with his brethren; and he was doing service”, showing that he was acquiring experience with God. It is a great matter for young brothers and sisters to acquire experience with God, and with the brethren too. And then the vest of many colours suggests an inward matter, as has been remarked. You might say that it is a secret thought, distinguishing Joseph, as the Lord was Himself distinguished in every way, in manhood.
Rem The features of manhood seem to have appeared at a very early age in the Lord’s life. At the age of twelve He said that He must be about His Father’s business.
JT “My Father’s business”, Luke 2:49 just so; He spoke of that at the age of twelve, according to Luke.
[p. 157] AR Would the coat of many colours suggest the moral glories of Christ?
JT I suppose so, so it makes way for the thought of “from glory to glory” 2 Corinthians 3:18; we come into the realm of glory, and the sooner we know that the better, because it is not a matter of what we should be but what we are, what God has made us.
SCM Joseph says, later, “Tell my father of all my glory in Egypt”.
JT So that we come into a system of glory, and Joseph peculiarly represents that. “And tell my father of all my glory in Egypt”; think of that! And when you apply that to the Lord Jesus, all the glory of heaven is vested in Him.
AR John could say, “We have contemplated his glory”.
JT Yes. “A glory as of an only-begotten with a father”, John 1:14.
JTJr Joseph is singled out here in this way so that we should fix our view on Christ; that is, the other generations, do not come in here.
JT So that Christ comes first, in type, and we have to wait for the others, Israel and the millennium have to be waited for; but we have come into the glorious heavenly system.
CFE It is remarkable that his glories should shine forth in a place like Egypt, when he is rejected by his brethren.
JT As in the gospels; how the glories of Christ shone out as He moved about in Palestine! And how they are appreciated now by the gentiles! And so the blessings are “on the crown of the head of him that was separated from his brethren”, Genesis 49:26 It is well perhaps to note that the coat did not make Joseph glorious; the colours, in that sense, just reflected Jacob’s appreciation of what he was in himself in these features [p. 158] of manhood.
VCL You spoke about eternal life: it says in John’s gospel that the Father loves the Son and has given all things to be in His hand, and then it says, “He that believes on the Son has life eternal” John 3:36. Would that be an early issue in our history, as to whether we understand what is in the hands of the Son so that we might have life eternal?
JT It comes out early in John, in chapter 1:4: “In him was life, and the life was the light of men” John 1:4, the life was the light of men, not of angels but of men. So that we come into that first; the millennial day will show what is coming in later, but we come into the good of everything now; there is nothing that is not available for us to come into.
GB One feels certain that there must be something very precious secretly underlying this love of Israel for his son Joseph; and I am sure we would each one desire to get the gain of that so that we can truly experience the love of the Father, flowing into our hearts, and then to be answering to it responsively. One reason is given why Israel loved Joseph more than all his sons, and that is because he was son of his old age.
JT We have already touched on John, “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand” John 3:35. I think that is a wonderful statement. That is the secret, I believe, of all this that we are speaking of. But you have something more in mind?
GB Well, we are on a great subject really, and I feel that if our hearts could be touched in some way so that we truly experienced the love of the Father for us, that would surely help us to be established here in manhood.
JT And so John’s epistles help us greatly, they are so full of this line of the truth. You will have observed that, I am sure.
TNW At the end of John 17 it says, “That the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them”, John 17:28.
Would that mean that the Father’s love for the Son is now to be in us?
JT Yes, and so we get, “Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us” 1 John 4:10. “Herein is love”, that is the way it is put in John’s writings.
GB Was it the faithfulness of Joseph that called out the hatred of his brethren?
JT Quite so; and we shall always find that to be the case if we are faithful and not afraid to relate to the assembly things done that are not right.
RWS “He came to his own, and his own received him not”, it says.
JT Very good. But then, “as many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God, to those that believe on his name; who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh’s will, nor of man’s will, but of God” John 1:11,12. It is those who have been born. It is not new birth there exactly, but born of God; not by the Spirit, even, but of God. The new birth is by the Spirit, but being born in John 1:13 is of God. It is the great work of God seen connected with the idea of birth.
Ques Did Joseph act wisely in relating his dream in the face of the hatred which was prevalent at the moment? It needed courage in the face of the opposition to relate such as dream.
JT Well, his father wondered about it, and rebuked him and said: “What is this dream which thou hast dreamt? Shall we indeed come, I and thy mother and thy brethren, to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? And his brethren envied him; but his father kept the saying”. His father was wise, he kept the saying, he did not ridicule it.
Ques Was not Joseph considering for the truth? He was not considering for himself but for the truth. He stood for what was right.
JT Yes, he stood outright for the truth. His brethren hated him, and we shall see that they were [p. 160] really determined to kill him; it was only the intervention of Reuben and Judah that protected him, which reminds us that faithfulness will be found amidst unfaithfulness amongst our brethren.
Ques Is this what we get in John’s gospel? The Lord Jesus is seen there as saying, “Before Abraham was, I am. They took up therefore stones that they might cast them at him” John 8:58. Is that the idea?
JT That is exactly the answer to the type.
JHE We do well to take heed to this, We may not understand everything as it is presented but if we ponder over it the Spirit will help us.
JT Quite so; pondering is a good word. Mary pondered things in her heart, and here Jacob “kept the saying”.
ANG Would the dreams come in, in a certain sense, as a corroboration of the vest of many colours? That was the sign of the father’s approval, but now heaven is taking a hand in the matter, indicating the ability of this person, in type, to rule both in heaven and on earth.
JT Yes; heaven is taking a hand in the matter. We have seen that when adverse things happen in the world; we have seen God coming in, as we do now in relation to trade unionism; we see God’s hand coming in to intervene and help the brethren.
Ques Is the second dream the greater of the two? In the first dream the sheaves bow down before the one sheaf; one like themselves; but in the second case it is the sun and the moon and the stars bowing before the person. There is no likeness in the second dream; he stands out uniquely. He is not the sun, he is not the moon, he is not the stars. It is his person, shewing his exclusive and unique greatness.
Ques Is it heaven and earth in that way that have to bow to Christ? It says, in Philippians 2: 9: “Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and granted him a name ... that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly and earthly and infernal beings, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to God the Father’s glory” Philippians 2:9 - 11.
[p. 161] I thought the first dream, the sheaves, represented what was on the earth; and the sun and moon and stars, what is in the heaven; both must bow the knee to Christ.
JT Very good.
JTJr There is a rising up in the first part. Does that allude to the Lord here as amongst men, and that His sheaf stood up; that is, He stood up amongst men as outstanding? His distinctive glory shone amongst men.
JT Quite so, “Never man spake like this man”, John 7:46.
Ques Is that seen in chapter 41 where it says, “Shall we find one as this, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?” Genesis 41:38. That would confirm what has just been said, would it not?
JT Just so, one “in whom the Spirit of God is”. If we look into the book of Ezekiel we shall see that God will put His Spirit into His people.
FNW Does not the excellency of manhood as seen in Jesus shine out, on the one hand calling forth the increasing love of the Father for Him and on the other hand the increasing hatred of men?
JT Just so, “On this account the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it again”, John 10:17.
AR Does not Genesis 44 bear on what has been said, that Joseph’s sheaf remained standing? Does that not bear on the exaltation of Christ as typified in the exaltation of Joseph? In that chapter he is next to Pharaoh and in verse 14 his brethren are said to fall down before him on the ground. In chapter 45 he is disclosing himself to his brethren. His sheaf remains standing, as it were.
JT Quite so, his distinction stands out. “And Joseph could not control himself before all them that stood by him, and he cried, Put every man out from me! And no man stood with him when Joseph made himself known to his brethren. And he raised his voice in weeping; and the Egyptians heard ... And Joseph said to his brethren, I am Joseph”
[p. 162] Wonderful statement! And wonderful when you think of the New Testament and who Christ is. Peter said when the Lord challenged them as to what they said as to Him: “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God”, Matthew 16:16.
AR Does not Peter assert it in Acts 2:36: “God has made him, this Jesus whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ”? Acts 2:36 Just so, “God has made him ... both Lord and Christ”, God has done that over against what they did.
ABP It would seem that weeping does not detract from manhood if it is the expression of true feeling; it says that Jesus wept.
JT The shortest verse in the Bible is: “Jesus wept”, John 11:35.
GH Timothy was a man of God, and Paul speaks of his tears.
JT Very good, they were rare tears, but not so rare as the Lord’s tears. The Lord Himself wept. “Jesus wept”, when He saw the others weeping.
SCM Is there not an allusion to the Lord, in type, in Psalm 126, verses 5 and 6? “They that sow in tears shall reap with rejoicing: he goeth forth and weepeth, bearing seed for scattering; he cometh again with rejoicing, bearing his sheaves”, Psalm 126:5,6.
JT So that the weeping precedes the fruit-bearing; He brings His sheaves with Him; not one sheaf, but “sheaves”.
ANG The first scripture we read says that Jacob sent Joseph out of the vale of Hebron. Would that be an allusion to the level at which Joseph would handle his brethren, Hebron suggesting fellowship?
[p. 163] If things are to be handled at the level of the true fellowship it may involve tears.
JT Beautiful! It is one of the remarkable phrases of Scripture, “the vale of Hebron”, a peculiar reference to Hebron. If we look into the history of Hebron and what is found in it we shall see the bearing on what has just been said. Here, in verse 2, we read, “And he raised his voice in weeping; and the Egyptians heard, and the house of Pharaoh heard. And Joseph said to his brethren, I am Joseph”. I think that all should take that in, the way Joseph asserts himself: “I am Joseph”.
JTJr So the Lord says, “I am Jesus, whom thou persecutest”, Acts 9:5.
VCL In chapter 37 it says, “And Joseph went after his brethren”; but in chapter 45 Joseph said to his brethren, “Come near to me”. Are we not on the line of what is progressively intimate?
JT Just so. And then the beautiful touch, “Does my father yet live?”
CAM Do you think that he was free to ask that question in connection with what Judah had said in his last words in the preceding chapter? Those words showed that there was in Judah a love for his father that had apparently been forgotten in their actions against Joseph But now Judah says, “Lest I see the evil that would come on my father”, Genesis 44:34. Joseph would have confidence in Judah because of his reference to his father.
Ques Is it not important to see in that way that there was not only an attack on Joseph in these chapters but also on his father? The Lord said, “They have both seen and hated both me and my Father”, John 15:24.
JT All of chapter 45 breathes the deep feelings of affection. “I am Joseph Does my father yet live? And his brethren could not answer him, for they were troubled at his presence. And Joseph said to his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near. And he said, I am Joseph your brother”;
beautiful affection breathed out here; “I am Joseph your brother, whom ye sold into Egypt. And now, be not grieved, and be not angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither, for God sent me before you to preserve life. For the famine has been these two years in the land; and yet there are five years in which there will be neither ploughing nor harvest”. All that is most beautiful when we apply it to Christ and the presence of the Spirit here active now. And so he continues, “So God sent me before you to preserve you a remnant in the earth, and to save you alive by a great deliverance”. This is all beautiful when we apply it to the reality of the thing, that is to Christ. Deliverance is effected.
Rem In chapter 41 Joseph attributes much to God when he interprets Pharaoh’s dream; he said, “God will give Pharaoh an answer” Genesis 41:16; and in this chapter he attributes much to God in saying that He “sent me before you to preserve life”.
JT That is, he brought God into prominence; that is what God has done, a great matter in view of the gospel, “The gospel of God ... concerning his Son”, Romans 1:3.
RWS You mentioned the Spirit, too. I wanted to ask how that works out as to the Lord and the Spirit in this matter of preserving life. What is the application of verse 7, “God sent me before you to preserve you a remnant in the earth, and to save you alive by a great deliverance”?
JT Well, I think the Spirit has to be brought into all these things. You can take account of redemption: of course the Spirit did not die, it is Christ that died; it says that redemption was accomplished by Him. But then while He took the outward part, the suffering part, the Spirit and the Father have part in it too, and we must bring Them into it. They are brought into it as we enlarge on the subject.
RWS “Who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God”, Hebrews 9:14.
JT That is it, “through the eternal Spirit”.
JTJr “The Spirit is life” Romans 8:10; it is a question of life now. Joseph is not thinking of death, he is thinking of life.
JT And then it is in view of righteousness.
CFE Do you regard Joseph and his brethren here as in an inside position? In the early part of the chapter he put every man out, the matter was to be between him and his brethren only.
JT Quite so; there are often too many entering into matters which need spirituality, too many sometimes entering into things. Certain things call for spirituality, and you cannot bring everyone into things that need spirituality.
SW And so on the Lord’s day morning when the Lord comes in and reveals Himself to the saints, those sitting around on the outside do not know anything about what is going on inside.
JT Very good; but they should not stay there, they should come in, like those that wait for His appearing, who love His appearing. “We look for Thine appearing, Thy presence here to bless; We greet the day that’s nearing, When all this woe shall cease” (200:4). That is a beautiful composition.
ANG When Paul recounted the matter of the Lord’s coming he said, even in that early day, “We, the living, who remain”.
JT Just so. That passage in 1 Thessalonians 4 would confirm what we are saying: “We, the living, who remain”; we are not looking to die but to be changed, to go to be with the Lord. “Thus we shall be always with the Lord”, 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
VCL The apostle says, “I speak as to intelligent persons: do ye judge what I say”, 1 Corinthians 10:15. Is there not to be [p. 166] a combination of intelligence and of spiritual instincts in the truth?
JT Just so, I would say intelligence first. We have to go by the Book.
SW But do we not see spiritual instincts before intelligence?
JT But I say again, Go by the Book. The Old Testament is the one for the types, the New for the actual application of the truth. When Joseph was born, Jacob’s instincts gave him the right desires, but that was based on experience, intelligent experience. Jacob said later that he was going to die; but I have no hesitation in saying I am not waiting to die, I am waiting for the coming of the Lord. We await His appearing.
FHL Would you mention what is the outstanding feature of manhood in chapter 45 to link on with the verses read in chapter 48?
JT It is continuing this great thought of love in activity. It says in chapter 45 that “Joseph could not control himself”. He cried — he did not whisper — “Put every man out from me!”. This disclosure must be in the particular seclusion of the persons present. Then in verse 27 it says that the spirit of Jacob revived. Apparently he had been prepared to die, but it says, “And the spirit of Jacob ... revived”, and he spoke to them saying: “Joseph my son is yet alive; I will go and see him before I die”. Look at his determination! “Joseph my son is yet alive; I will go and see him before I die”, Genesis 45:27,28. That is determination.
EAL Simeon in Luke 2 had a special communication; it was communicated to him by the Holy Spirit that he should not see death before he should see the Lord’s Christ.
JT Yes; he said, “Lord, now thou lettest thy bondman go, according to thy word, in peace”, Luke 2:29. He would die, but it would be according to the word of God.
ABP [p. 167] It is remarkable that in 1 Thessalonians 4 the word “we” is emphatic, “We, the living, who remain”, 1 Thessalonians 4:17. Paul included himself amongst them.
Ques Is this the line of elevation? Joseph elevates his brethren from what they had been and their failures, and Jacob elevates Ephraim. Is that what will take place at the coming of the Lord, that we shall be elevated?
JT We shall all go together, but the dead will rise first; that is one thing to notice, that the dead in Christ shall rise first. “Then we, the living who remain ...” That is, we all go up together; “And thus we shall be always with the Lord”, 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
DP Joseph had great ability in administering food to the people in Egypt, but he did not seem to have the intelligence to understand that God takes away the first that He might establish the second as set out in Jacob’s blessing of his sons.
JT Jacob knew better than Joseph: he excelled in intelligence. “I know, my son, I know”, Genesis 48:19.
ANG Do you think that much of God’s dealings with us is to bring us to that mind? Jacob’s first contact with Bethel indicated that he found it a terrible place, but in his subsequent life he learned the kind of man that was suitable for the place and now in this connection he is prepared to bring that kind of man forward.
JT Very good; he had said, “This is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven”, Genesis 28:17.
RWS He goes out, according to Hebrews 11, as a worshipper. Is that the thought of the service of God going on to the end?
JT Quite so, that is the present time; I regard that as the present time, the time of worship. The Lord’s supper is in that sense just a means to an end.