MAN (4)

^[p. 58] MAN (4)

Genesis 12:1 - 3; Genesis 14:14 - 24; Genesis 15:1 - 7; Genesis 17:1 - 14

JT The many references made to Abraham in these scriptures are to be noted, reminding us that he is the father of us all, of all humanity; that it is not Adam who is the father of us all, but Abraham. The Lord said of him, “Your father Abraham exulted in that he should see my day, and he saw and rejoiced”, John 8:56. He is the father of us all.

GH What is involved in that expression: The father of us all?

JT All believers, all of us. We have read from Genesis 12 to bring out his call, as it is said, “And Jehovah had said to Abram, Go out of thy land, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, to the land that I will shew thee. And I will make of thee a great nation, and bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing. And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. And Abram departed as Jehovah had said to him. And Lot went with him”. It might be just as well to call attention to Lot, as to whether Abram made a right choice in taking his nephew with him, for eventually he left him and had to be rescued from his captors.

SW Would you say that there were potentialities in Abram that would lead God to select him?

JT Oh clearly; He knew him. God says, “I know him”. It is a peculiar thing; it is rarely that you get such an expression. Jehovah said, “I know him that he will command his children and his household after him”, Genesis 18:19.

CFE He was marked by obedience, was he not?

JT Quite so, that is just the point, he was marked by obedience.

CAM ^[p. 59] As to manhood, you are looking at Abraham, are you not, as to origin? Do you mean there was origin in him? You were contrasting him with Adam?

JT Well, I think that is true; he is the father of us all so he must be the head.

AR Is that not the point in the verses which we have read: “In thee shall all families of the earth be blessed”?

JT That is the indication of what he is in the mind of God. All families of the earth are to be blessed. And not only is he the father of them all, but they are blessed in him.

Ques What is in view in “all families”?

JT It says, “In thee shall all families of the earth be blessed”. Well now, we have to contrast that passage with a passage in Ephesians 3 in which Paul says, “I bow my knees to the Father ... of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named”, Ephesians 3:14,15. So that there you get a contrast. It is just the earth that is blessed in Abraham, but from God Himself it is every family in the heavens and on the earth that is blessed; God is the Blesser of them all.

Ques Would the fact that the Lord Jesus refers to certain ones as a son of Abraham and a daughter of Abraham confirm that the beginning is with Abraham?

JT These two are mentioned in the gospel of Luke; it is characteristic.

RWS Does the early part of Genesis 11 indicate the dishonour that had come upon men following on Babel where God confounded their language and scattered them? It says in verse 9, “And Jehovah scattered them thence over the face of the whole earth”, Genesis 11:9. Is that a sort of background to what He is about to secure in Abraham and his family?

JT The chapter begins, “And the whole earth had one language, and the same words” Genesis 11:1 and then it proceeds in verse 6, “Behold, the people is one, and have all one language; and this have they begun to do. And now will they be hindered in nothing that they meditate doing. Come, let us go down, and there confound their language”, Genesis 11:6,7. That is to say, it was a combination, not of God nor divinely designed; it was a great combination and they would do great things. They had said, “Come on, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. And they said, Come on, let us build ourselves a city and a tower: the top of which may reach to the heavens; and let us make ourselves a name”, Genesis 11:3,4. It was not God’s name they had in mind, but their own name.

RWS The devil would dishonour manhood; but God is now about to honour it in calling Abram alone and blessing him.

JT Quite so; it says in Isaiah 51:2, “I called him when he wag alone, and blessed him”.

SCM Does sovereignty enter into this?

JT Clearly; it is a question of God selecting a man that He knew. He says, “I know him”; he was a man that would command his household and his children, those coming after him. It is a great matter that our children should be brought up rightly so that they may reflect God and set forth the truth in their walk.

ANW The prophet is addressing those that follow after righteousness in that passage in Isaiah; he says, “Ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek Jehovah: look unto the rock whence ye were hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye were digged. Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bore you”, Isaiah 51:1,^[p. 61] 2.

JT So that the father and mother are in mind, you mean?

ANW Yes; I thought that faith saw with God there, as to the father and mother.

AMacd Is there any link with the fact that Stephen in his address begins with the God of glory appearing to Abraham?

JT Beautiful! It is a beautiful passage, ending in his own martyrdom as he says, “I behold the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God”, Acts 7:56. It is a very beautiful passage and one that ought to have been mentioned at the very beginning of our reading. What else had you in mind?

AMacd I was only bringing it in to support what you were saying, the importance Abraham has in connection with manhood.

JT So that the Lord speaks of him in the passage as to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob sitting down in the kingdom in the millennium.

JTJr The glory being brought in in that chapter would fit in with what you have in mind in regard to manhood, man in relation to glory.

JT Just so; surely God had Christ in mind in all that we are saying, that He was to become Man, He was to take man’s place.

VCL While sovereignty comes into it, is there not the feature of nazariteship worked out in the fact that Abraham separated himself and went out according to God’s word?

JT He delayed a bit, of course; that has to be recognized. Stephen tells us that, but still he came to the mind of God and went out. Eventually he did what he was told to do. It is a great matter that we carry out the will of God even though we delay ^[p. 62] in doing it.

GVD The record in Hebrews is that, being called, he obeyed to go out. I was wondering if the opening of 1 Corinthians in which the apostle addresses them as called saints, or saints by divine calling, “with all that in every place call on the name”, 1 Corinthians 1:2 would bring us in with Abraham on this line of being called out?

JT Quite so. And he is called “believing Abraham”, Galatians 3:9 that is to say he is the man of faith. Faith largely began with him, you might say; he was marked by faith. The expression “believing Abraham” is characteristic.

ABP Is his life as a pilgrim and a stranger intended to be exemplary for the believer?

JT Just so. He looked for a city too, which had foundations, whose builder and maker is God. He linked himself up with God in the idea of foundations.

Rem Abraham answered to what Jehovah said to him. Is that the outcome with a man who has faith?

JT Just so, it is the obedience of faith, that is the point in Romans; “for obedience of faith to all the nations”, Romans 16:26. There is no christianity without faith, no christianity at all without faith. It is founded in faith.

DP Do moral conditions underlie sovereign choice?

JT Well, they must agree, of course. God takes us up on the principle of new birth; in the new birth there is a wholly new beginning in man, a wholly new beginning. And of course Abraham would have to come into that too, although it is not specified; but he would have to come into that as did all the other believers that are mentioned in Hebrews 11. “By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by the word of God”, Hebrews 11:3. It is a question of ^[p. 63] faith.

AR It says in Galatians that the dispensation in which we are is one of faith. Does Abraham antedate our dispensation?

JT No, he does not; our dispensation is the greatest of all dispensations. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself has inaugurated it; and so the apostles were ordained in view of it, in view of the gospel; it says, “First, Simon”, Matthew 10:2 he was the first one, the leader, and he is the first one to preach the gospel.

EAL What is the idea of the land being mentioned first: “Go out of thy land”? Is that over against “the land that I will shew thee”? Is it to stress that?

JT It says, “And Jehovah had said to Abram, Go out of thy land, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, to the land that I will shew thee”. The land of Canaan was in mind, and Abram was to come into it; that is what is in mind in all this. But in order to pursue our subject we must proceed to chapter 14 which relates to the war of the kings; what comes out as to Abraham in that chapter should now be considered. It says in the 18th verse of chapter 13, “Then Abram moved his tents, and came and dwelt by the oaks of Mamre, which are in Hebron”, Genesis 13:18. It is pre-eminently the idea of the land; Hebron was built seven years before Zoan in Egypt; “And he built there an altar to Jehovah”. Then it goes on to speak of a conflict that had to be entered upon by Abram and certain allies that we are told of in verse 13 and that “Abram heard that his brother was taken captive”, Genesis 14:13. A point that we should consider now is whether we are able to deliver people that have been taken captive by sin or any other influence; whether we are able to deliver them, or whether they are hindered from being in the full thought of the truth of the assembly because they are captive. So that it says, “And Abram heard that his brother was taken captive; and he led out his trained servants, born in his house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them as far as Dan”.

^[p. 64] That is, he was ready for an emergency, to deliver his brother.

ABP This is urgently needed in our current city exercises.

JT Many have been led away, they have to be delivered; is that in your mind?

ABP Yes, cases that are currently in the exercises of the brethren. We need help on how to rescue our brethren.

AAT What are the trained servants in christianity?

JT Those that are trained can enter on warfare, they can skilfully enter on warfare. They must be taught, that is to say, taught to contend for the truth once delivered to the saints. But that is the idea: contend for it!

JHE True manhood is seen here; he was willing to lay down his life.

JT That is quite right and he was skilful; it says, “And he divided himself against them by night, he and his servants, and smote them, and pursued them as far as Hobah, which is to the left of Damascus. And he brought back all the property, and brought again his brother Lot and his property”; notice that, “his brother Lot and his property”. “And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after he had returned from smiting Chedorlaomer, and the kings that were with him, into the valley of Shaveh, which is the king’s valley. And Melchisedec king of Salem brought out bread and wine. And he was priest of the Most High God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the Most High God, possessor of heavens and earth. And blessed be the Most High God, who has delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him the tenth of all. And the king of Sodom said to Abram, Give me the souls, and take the property for thyself. And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lifted up my hand to Jehovah, the Most High God, possessor of heavens and earth, if from a thread even to a sandal-thong, yes, if of all that is thine, I take anything ... ; that thou mayest not say, I have made Abram rich; save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men that went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre, let them take their portion”.

^[p. 65] That is to say, he, Abram, would not be indebted to the world for anything.

ABP Is it not of interest that the word “enemies” occurs here for the first time in Scripture?

JT That is interesting.

FHL And the word “priest” too. I suppose that after the conflict the test comes as to the world’s glory, and then the priest of the Most High God comes in.

JT It is encouraging to me to hear all this. Will you enlarge upon what you have said.

FHL What has just been said as to enemies is striking, and then God brings His priest to light at the critical moment in Abram’s history when it is a question whether the man of faith will succumb to the enemy or whether he will be maintained in his relations with God.

ANW I was struck as you re-read those verses how the relation is changed from the “brother’s son” to the “brother” with respect to Lot. Does that enforce the obligation upon us to deliver, as has been said? It is a closer link, the word “brother” seems to enforce the obligation. Abram took him out as his brother’s son, but now it is his brother.

JT To be called a brother is greater, he is raised, really; it is a greater thing to be a brother than a ^[p. 66] nephew.

FW Is this the defence of the truth for the truth’s sake so that all may be benefited by it? I was thinking of our own dispensation, that the truth was lost sight of and persons were in darkness; and then God came in in His sovereignty and raised up men who were prepared to stand for the truth. They rescued the truth, as it were, that all might be benefited by it.

JT Quite so; tell us of some of those men who were used in that way.

FW Well, amongst others, I was thinking of Luther.

JT Very good, and of course you go back to Paul, and Peter who was the first preacher of the gospel. He was one of the twelve.

FW Would there be what answers to that idea in Abram here? In connection with the conflict for the truth, after darkness had supervened, it needed the power of God to come in and raise this conflict. The truth was opposed and there were men who were prepared to stand for it; and when they did stand for it souls found the truth available to them so that they might be blessed. Lot was in that position, was he not, but he did not get the full benefit of it.

JT I think it is well to begin at the beginning as to anything we are considering, and the conflict entering into christianity really began with Peter. I mean to say he was the first apostle. Of course the Lord Jesus began the conflict, but now we are dealing with His servants and what they are capable of. And so I think Peter stood his ground well in Acts 2; and then in chapter 3, how he speaks about the prophets, every one of them, as bearing witness!

FNW Do Peter and Paul represent conflict in a spiritual position, as Abram does in moving to ^[p. 67] Hebron?

JT Very good, in a spiritual position; and, in figure, his servants could not be trained servants if they were not spiritual; Abram’s servants were trained, three hundred and eighteen of them. But Peter, of course, was a trained servant of Christ, and he preached the gospel wonderfully in Acts 2, and then in chapter 3 as showing how all the prophets came into it.

ABP Is it of interest that these persons became enemies to Abram because they had taken Lot captive? There was no direct act against Abram.

JT It was a question of the brother, you mean, of rescuing the brother.

ABP I wonder if this does not help us to take account of things that are against the testimony? Persons may not be against us personally for us to regard them as enemies; if they are against Christ and against the truth they are our enemies.

JTJr The crisis brought out the things Abram had. If there is a crisis or anything difficult it should bring out what there is amongst us.

JT What there is amongst us, what we have, whether brothers or sisters. And it is well to notice that both are taken account of in the matter of conflict. We are now dealing with the conflict, and the occasion of it was Lot, Abram’s nephew, but regarded as a brother. He did not go after him because he was his nephew, but because he was a brother.

Ques What is the thought of the servants being born in his house?

JT That shows that he was a man of influence and means; people cannot have a household like this and have servants born in it without having means. If we transfer the idea of means, it is what is spiritual, whether we have those that will go out and suffer for the sake of the brother. That is the idea.

^[p. 68] Ques Is there any thought in it as to being brought up in the truth? Would that enter into it?

JT It would, surely.

AR Abram’s allies are spoken of in verse 13. There is a footnote which says it means ‘masters of covenant’.

JT That is the idea, there is an honourable link with his allies, they were masters of covenant. And we have come into covenant; in the Lord’s supper we have come into covenant.

JTJr So the idea of being born in the house would perhaps link on with what we were saying yesterday as to Ecclesiastes and the time of one’s birth; that is, the idea of birth here would suggest other things, I suppose, as to our origin.

JT So we have to come back to the idea of new birth; it is not the natural birth, it is the new one — “anew”, it means ‘entirely afresh’. Really what is meant is born throughout, from the top to the bottom; the whole matter in the believer has to be dealt with anew, from top to bottom.

VCL And then does not the matter of training involve the suggestion of command which marks Abram in a later chapter as to commanding his household? Would that not mean now that we come under the authority of the truth and the power of the Spirit to be trained?

JT I would say that. Abram’s family would be marked by this, and we are all Abram’s children; therefore the whole matter should be brought up as to whether we are really born anew, from the top to the bottom.

CAM It is remarkable, is it not, that it says that he “led” them; he led out his trained servants. As we think of one another with this spiritual origin and history we have only one will, I mean we are not governed by our own wills, we are ^[p. 69] led.

JT We have to have leaders; he led them out. They were not only his trained servants but he led them. So that the word is, “leaders led in Israel”, Judges 5:2. Alas! there are few; there is a great lack of leaders in every department, spiritually, a great lack. And so Deborah says, “For that leaders led in Israel, ... Bless Jehovah”, Judges 5:2.

ATD Abram qualified because he obeyed to go out.

JT That is so, he obeyed to start with, there was proper subjection to start with. Hebrews 11 would show that faith is the basis of all.

DP Would this military side be seen in Paul putting forward Timothy at Corinth, and Titus at Crete?

JT Just so. He speaks much of both; they were, you might say, his trained servants; Timothy and Titus are different from any other servants because they are subordinate to Paul. They are not like John or the others, they are subordinate to Paul; and so Abram comes in as leader on that line.

Rem Romans 16 gives us a good list of trained servants, both sisters and brothers.

JT Very good. It begins, “But I commend to you Phoebe, our sister, who is minister of the assembly which is in Cenchrea; that ye may receive her in the Lord worthily of saints, and that ye may assist her in whatever matter she has need of you; for she also has been a helper of many, and of myself”, Romans 16:1,2. And then a long list follows. They were all trained servants, all these men and women, and Paul regarded them in that light. And that is the question for us now, and for the young people here, to be subject to their elders and ready to do things.

Ques Would this principle be seen in relation to Joshua who got his training under Moses? Then in Numbers 27:15 - 17 when Moses was looking for ^[p. 70] a man who could lead out the assembly and bring them in, Jehovah told him to take Joshua, a man in whom was the Spirit.

JT Just so, will you kindly read the passage?

Rem “And Moses spoke to Jehovah, saying, Let Jehovah, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the assembly, who may go out before them, and who may come in before them, and who may lead them out, and who may bring them in”, Numbers 27:15 - 17 “Lead them out, and ... bring them in”, that is the idea; do not let them be scattered, drawn into the world in the meantime; bring them back again.

ABP Would the principle of care and training and authority be seen pre-eminently in the Lord in the way He developed the disciples for their apostleship? I have in mind the generality of His dealings with them, the way He could say at the end, “When I sent you ... lacked ye anything?” Luke 22:35 as though the spirit of fatherhood was with Him as well as that of authority in rebuking, if need be, as He was training them in view of their service.

JT They came under His tuition; He was the Leader in everything, as Paul says: “Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ”, 1 Corinthians 11:1.

JTJr So the Lord says to Peter and John, “I will make you fishers of men”; Matthew 4:19. I will make you that.

JT That is, they are not simply to be trained, but He says, “I will make you fishers of men”. And there were many besides the twelve.

FNW As in Luke 10, “Now after these things the Lord appointed seventy others also”, Luke 10:1.

JT That is just the verse I was thinking of.

FNW And such persons had their names written in heaven.

ANW And of the twelve themselves it says in chapter 9, “And having called together the twelve, he gave them power and authority over all demons”, Luke 9:^[p. 71] 1 It speaks of certain ones who were in the school of Tyrannus for about three years. Would that fit in here as suggestive of training?

JT Very good, the school of Tyrannus. You might say that it is the idea of a tyrant, but young people need to be brought under the rule of a dominating man so that they may be subdued and trained.

AR Do we see the evidence of skilful training in the way the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews brings forward Melchisedec? He was a mysterious man, having neither father nor mother, beginning of days, nor end of life, and likened unto the Son of God.

JT That is the person you get here, who says, “And blessed be the Most High God, who has delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him the tenth of all. And the king of Sodom said to Abram, Give me the souls, and take the property for thyself”. That was a misleading thought: “Give me the souls, and take the property for thyself”; that is, the souls would be persons; property is not persons, property is nothing to be compared with persons. And that is what the king of Sodom wanted Abram to take, but Abram would not admit of that at all, he would not take anything from the world.

AR Do you think Melchisedec helped him to give this answer to the king of Sodom?

JT I should think so. And now I think we should get on to the idea of “the word” in chapter 15. This is the first mention of “the word” in the Bible. “After these things the word of Jehovah came to Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram; I am thy shield, thy exceeding great reward. And Abram said, Lord Jehovah, what wilt thou give me? seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus. And Abram said, Lo, to me thou hast given no seed, and behold, a son of my house will be mine heir. And behold, the word of Jehovah came to him, saying, This shall not be thine heir, but he that will come forth out of thy body shall be thine heir. And he led him out, and said, Look now toward the heavens, and number the stars, if thou be able to number them. And he said to him, So shall thy seed be! And he believed Jehovah; and he reckoned it to him as righteousness”.

^[p. 72] That is one of the great things as to Abraham being our father, that he is righteous. So that you have, “So shall thy seed be! And he believed Jehovah; and he reckoned it to him as righteousness”. It was reckoned righteousness, the great principle of righteousness being reckoned to a person. And that is where Abraham came into the great feature of his life; it was reckoned to him as righteousness that he believed God; he was Abraham the believer.

FHL So that the apostle speaking to the Galatians says again, “So that they who are on the principle of faith are blessed with believing Abraham”, Galatians 3:19.

JT “Believing Abraham”! Beautiful passage!

ABP Romans 10 says, “Faith then is by a report, but the report by God’s word”, Romans 10:17.

JT That is how faith comes; a very great point in Romans, how faith comes; it is the gift of God, but it comes by God’s word; it is the word of God that is the idea, leading up to faith.

EAL Had Abraham really gotten the victory over the world in this chapter? In 1 John 5 we have, “For all that has been begotten of God gets the victory over the world; and this is the victory which has gotten the victory over the world, our faith”, 1 John 5:4.

JT That is a passage that ought to be enlarged on: “our faith”, not simply faith by itself, but “our faith”, what a christian really has.

^[p. 73] Ques And another passage in Romans 4 speaks of “those also who walk in the steps of the faith ... of our father Abraham”, Romans 4:12. That would be the way Abraham walked; is that it?

JT Just so, “in the steps of the faith”, one after the other.

RWS When he says, in verse 8, “How shall I know?” that is not an evidence of the lack of faith, is it?

JT No; and God tells him what to do that he may know. He says to him, “Take me a heifer of three years old, and a she-goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtle-dove, and a young pigeon”. Notice the age, full maturity, the age of three; these were the ones he was to take. But then Jehovah tells him what to do; he has now to be fully in faith in what he is doing. The word of God is the point.

AR Do the female animals being brought forward indicate that Abraham should be in correspondence with them?

JT Quite so. He said to God, “Lord Jehovah, how shall I know?” That is a beautiful enquiry, “How shall I know?”, and he makes that enquiry of Jehovah Himself. In verse 1 it says, “After these things the word of Jehovah came to Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram; I am thy shield, thy exceeding great reward”. That is how God is introduced, He introduces Himself to Abram. He says that He is a shield to him; yet Abram says that He has given him nothing. But presently he comes to the point of the whole matter, he says to Jehovah, “How shall I know?” and Jehovah tells him how to know; He directs him to take these animals. “Take me a heifer of three years old”, that is the first thing, “and a she-goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtle-dove, and a young pigeon”. The ages of the turtle-dove ^[p. 74] and of the pigeon are not mentioned, but it is a question of the creatures; they are to be prolific in order to produce what is needed. That is the idea of the whole passage.

RHS Have you any thought why this first mention of the word of God should take the form of a committal on the part of Jehovah toward Abram?

JT It is God doing it in His grace.

AEW Is it not clear that God intends to support this kind of man from heaven, support him from Himself?

JT This kind of man, that is the idea; not Adam but Abraham.

AEW In the previous chapter Abram spurned receiving anything from the king of Sodom; but here he receives much. There is the thought of the “word” that you have mentioned, and then the idea of the shield and the exceeding great reward, and then the thought of the seed, and even the thought of righteousness being reckoned. It is all from God’s side, He would support him on that basis.

JT Just so, so that he is called Abraham the believer. What a beautiful title, believing Abraham!

AAT I notice that Abram got that word in a vision. Does the word come to us today in a ministry meeting?

JT Well, if you got something like that from God it would be worth speaking about! Did you ever get something like this? You must get a word from God if you are going to give it out to the saints, you must get something from God.

LW Is the heavenly company in view in the verse 5? “Look now toward the heavens, and number the stars, if thou be able to number them”.

JT The stars represent a heavenly thought. Abram is not said to have any generations, it is a ^[p. 75] remarkable thing. Although he is a wonderful man he is not said to have any generations, it is what he is in himself, and that is from heaven. He is ministered to from heaven.

Ques In chapter 13 Jehovah says that his seed is to be as the dust of the earth. Here in chapter 15 it is as the stars of heaven. In between these chapters Melchisedec has come in; has that any connection between these two?

JT Well, quite, there must be something to that in relation to heaven because Melchisedec was the priest of the Most High God. That is his title in this book and in the book of Hebrews.

ABP Did you suggest that there is the idea of multiplication in these female offerings?

JT Of course the heifer is a female, that is the first creature mentioned; a heifer peculiarly represents love, affection. Then the two last creatures are said to be a turtle-dove and a young pigeon; there the ages are not mentioned.

ABP The first two are female, the heifer and the she-goat. I thought you were connecting that with the idea of multiplication.

JT With fruitfulness, quite so.

TEH As is the heavenly One so also are the heavenly ones. That would be fruitfulness.

RWS In our reading tonight are not features of this order of manhood taking form in our minds? We have the thoughts of believing, of leadership and of heavenly-mindedness. Our previous readings have been pretty general I thought, but we are coming now to specific features of manhood which please God.

JT Quite so. And then it is remarkable the variety of things that comes before us here, male and female and other remarkable features. One has been struck of late as to the idea of the house of God, the many things connected with it that are not ^[p. 76] specifically mentioned. We have just got to leave it open. The house may take a certain material form; but the idea of it, the place for God, is a great thought in Scripture. It is not just any house, but the house of God.

Ques What is the force of the name, “Lord Jehovah”?

JT “Lord” would be in the sense of authority. “Jehovah” is mentioned first in chapter 2 of this book, not in chapter 1 but in the second, as if God was coming into covenant relation with His people. That is the idea of it; and the title “Lord” added to it would be authority. We feel the need of authority in these circumstances.

Ques You referred to the house of God. I wondered why you bring that in here? What have we to see in that?

JT It is not because it is specifically mentioned here, only these features would suggest it. So going on to the 11th verse, “And the birds of prey came down on the carcases; and Abram scared them away. And as the sun was just going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, a horror, a great darkness, fell upon him. And he said to Abram, Know assuredly that thy seed will be a sojourner in a land that is not theirs, and they shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years. But also that nation which they shall serve I will judge; and afterwards they shall come out with great property. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. And in the fourth generation they shall come hither again; for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full”, Genesis 15:11 - 16. Notice that God is waiting for some iniquity to come to its fulness. And then it says, in verse 17, “And it came to pass when the sun had gone down, and it was dark, that behold, there was a smoking furnace, and a flame of fire which passed between those pieces. On the same day Jehovah made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates”, Genesis 15:17 - 18 ^[p. 77] so that God is now leading up to something that He is going to confirm to Abram, this wonderful inheritance, the wonderful inheritance he is coming into.

FHL Was Abram’s concern that he should have a generation to follow on, a question of continuing the link with God so as to take up the inheritance?

JT I would think so, I would think that is just the truth. And how great the number of years that would elapse! But God is patient, He is going to keep on until the iniquity of the Amorites is full. And so it is with much that goes on now, that God must have certain rights in the sense of patience, the rights of patience.

AR Do these boundaries in the end of the chapter refer to the millennium, or did David ever fully take all this territory?

JT In Matthew we have the Son of David first, and then the Son of Abraham. But David is the king, the one that can do things militarily.

CAM I was thinking of this matter of the Euphrates, how great the extent of it! It seems to look forward to David’s day. It says that David went to establish his dominion by the river Euphrates; that would suggest a very extensive matter.

JT It is the eastern territory, the region between the east and the west. It comes in in the book of Revelation. It is seen in the 16th chapter of that book.

CAM That is very interesting; it greatly, enlarges the view in this chapter. What an immense and extended view it is! The subject is so large that one has a great desire to be expanded as we think of the greatness of Abraham and of what God says about him.

^[p. 78] JHE Would it not be almost like the breadth and length and depth and height?

JT Just so, the breadth and the length and the depth and the height. That is an Ephesian measure.

Ques Would you say a little about how to scare away intruding influences? I was thinking of the apostle Paul saying, “I buffet my body and lead it captive”, 1 Corinthians 9:27. He would not tolerate anything that would hinder. Was not that the same line that Abram was on here? He was scaring away the birds. How often in the morning meeting thoughts come in when we are occupied with the service of praise; thoughts about our businesses or families or things like that, and they should be put out of our minds.

JT Paul had complete control of his body so that he would “lead it captive” and would not be carried away by natural influences. And as to alien thoughts, you would scare them away. How often we entertain them and begin to think of our circumstances or what we may have to do under certain circumstances.

TEH You suggested recently in the morning meeting that the scaring away of these birds continues throughout the whole of the Lord’s day, and possibly the week.

JT Very good, the whole day; I think that is a fine thing that we should keep the Lord’s day for the Lord and not use it for other things. It is the Lord’s day and it is called the first day of the week too in order to give it another distinction. The first day of the week is the Lord’s day. The Lord’s day is a matter of His authority, of what belongs to Him on that day.

Ques Is not the object of the enemy to rob God both in Sodom with the matter of taking the souls, and here with the birds of prey that came down?

JT Quite so; “Will a man rob God?” Malachi 3:8 it says ^[p. 79] in Malachi.

EAL Is that not what the enemy ever has in mind? We see that early in man’s history, that Cain because of the operation of his will was used of the enemy to rob God of a worshipper.

JT And how Satan seduced Eve, too, how the woman became deceived.

Ques Would you say that a man who is under the influence of the word of God as Abram is here, has the power to scare the birds away?

JT That is what our brother has been saying, that you get damaged if you entertain these thoughts on the first day of the week. The idea is to scare away the evil.

ABP According to Hebrews the word divides between the thoughts and intents of the heart. Would it be right to say that if the thoughts are not judged, they become intents?

JT Just so.

FNW Would not that passage as referring to Abram show that the more we have to do with God the more the truth penetrates us?

JT Just so. Now we come to chapter 17. It says, “And Abram was ninety-nine years old, when Jehovah appeared to Abram, and said to him, I am the Almighty God: walk before my face, and be perfect. And I will set my covenant between me and thee, and will very greatly multiply thee. And Abram fell on his face; and God talked with him, saying, It is I”. It is, as it were, God speaking as a man to his fellow; God graciously coming down in that sense to Abram. I think that is very beautiful: “It is I”. He says, “Behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of a multitude of nations”. It is a covenant, an engagement, that God is making with Abram: “It is I”, as if God is willing to let Himself be known to Abram in this beautiful way in the sense ^[p. 80] of covenant.

RWS This is greater than anything that has gone before; are we not moving on in our apprehension of God now that He has confidence in Abram?

JT Just so; so that chapter 17 is a sort of climax as to Abram being brought into personal relations with Jehovah, who says to him, “It is I”.

FHL There is a beautiful link with Psalm 105. I notice that the word covenant appears fourteen times in our chapter, and in the psalm it says, “He is ever mindful of his covenant, — the word which he commanded to a thousand generations, — which he made with Abraham”, Psalm 105:8,9. It is the whole generation of faith coming into the good of the covenant.

JT Very good; I think that is a very beautiful psalm, one has often pondered upon it: “He is ever mindful of his covenant”, Psalm 105:8. He never gives it up.

FSC Would it be here that “He takes hold of the seed of Abraham” Hebrews 2:16 according to Hebrews 2?

JT Just so.

RDG Inasmuch as it says of Abram that he was to be a father not just of a nation, but of nations, is it evident that God had what was spiritual in mind?

JT Surely; and what a man he was! You just wonder what Abraham will be in eternity, what a place he will have. It is a question to look into, the place a man like Abraham will have. Nobody else is quite like him that I can think of in his dispensation.

RDG So that we are not linked with failure, we are linked with Abraham, the man of faith.

JT Very good. And we can talk to Abraham’s seed according to flesh about that too; the time has come that we should talk to them and tell them that the millennial moment is coming and ask them if they are ready for it? I do not think that they are,

^[p. 81] although they have Palestine again and much is taking place but where is it leading to?

ES Is that why the Lord makes distinction in John 8 between Abraham’s seed and Abraham’s children? He says, “I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, ... If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham”, John 8:39.

JT And so the Lord says, “This did not Abraham”, John 8:40 that is, they were not like Abraham. And that is the point, I think; we ought to come to the idea of the Abrahamic family; he is the father of us all.

TEH The poor man in Luke 16 found himself at great disadvantage in this world, but he finally found himself in the bosom of Abraham. What a wonderful place, to be with a father like that!

DP Are the blessings of Abraham wider than the blessings of the assembly? What I mean is, do Abraham’s blessings extend beyond the blessings of the assembly?

JT They are not wider than the assembly, for there is no other family like the assembly. In general terms I would say that the blessings of Abraham extend to Israel, but the assembly is the Lamb’s wife, the bride of Christ, and she must come into all that He has in that sense. It must be the greatest of all inheritances. As to what the bride is by itself, there is no other family or thing to compare with it.

JTJr So it is, “Let them have dominion” Genesis 1:26 in the beginning.

JT Just so, that is Christ and the assembly. “I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly”, Ephesians 5:32. Paul says; she is coming into the dominion. “Let them have dominion” Genesis 1:26.