MAN (34)
[p. 522] MAN (34)
John 1:14 - 18; John 21:20 - 25
JTJr John records for us the fact of the Lord’s being in the Father’s bosom.
JT Yes; in chapter 1:18: “No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him” John 1:18.
JTJr Is it not striking that John should bring that out, that the Lord was in the Father’s bosom?
ABP Is it a position arrived at and peculiar to Him in manhood?
JT Quite so; I would say that.
TNW Has this in mind the Lord’s position as here on earth or did it become a fact after He had ascended?
JT It would be both; the Son was here as in the Father’s bosom; “the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father”. That is the great position that has come out in John’s gospel; and then the epistles, too, bring out the truth as to the Father and the Son.
ANW The words used would not allow that position to be conveyed into a past eternity. That was made clear when the truth as to the Lord’s sonship came out some years ago.
JT Yes; “The only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father”.
AR Is that also true of the Lord now?
JT Quite so; He is in the bosom of the Father.
SCM Does verse 14 show that this relationship was taken account of here? It says, “We beheld his glory”.
JT Surely they did, “as of an only-begotten with a father”. John brings that out; he was the disciple whom Jesus loved. That is a great point, and John [p. 523] brings it out.
SCM He himself leaned on the Lord’s breast.
JT Quite so.
AR There is a foot-note to the word “in” in verse 18 which bears on the fact that He has moved into this position as in the Father’s bosom.
JT That is right; He came into that position.
ABP It would seem that there is some question as to whether the Lord Jesus was in the Father’s bosom as here on earth, or if that awaited His ascension.
JT It is the present tense: “who is in the bosom of the Father”. It refers to the place He had there while in manhood here on earth.
JTJr The point is manhood; as Man He is in the bosom of the Father; it is a position arrived at in manhood.
JT The word implies motion; He came into it as Man. And the apostles came into the apostolic position.
JTJr John came into the Lord’s bosom. So that it is as Man that the Son is in the bosom of the Father.
FHL The declaration of God follows that expression in John 1:18.
JT Just so; “He hath declared him”.
JTJr You mean that the declaration comes in after the reference to the Lord’s being in the Father’s bosom.
AR It has been said that declaration bears on God: “No one has seen God at any time”.
JT Yes; but the verse reads: “The only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”. That is the whole matter: “Who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”. It was a then present matter.
WWM So that He also said: “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father”, John 14:9. [p. 524] He had revealed Him Good, that is the truth.
VCL Are these two wonderful things open to us, to see the glory as of an only-begotten, and then to hear the Father’s name declared?
JT It was unique in the experience of the apostles, but we are to come into the appreciation of it. And the Lord has helped us in recent years to understand more clearly that the Lord’s sonship hinges on His manhood.
ABP His place as the only-begotten is unique; that is a distinctive glory that He has in sonship?
JT That is right. John’s gospel opens up His sonship and it opens up eternal life, too, and therefore we should keep it before us.
JTJr There is a great system in mind in this section; love’s realm is in mind, is it not?
JT I would say that. And it is an important thing for us to understand.
AR We could not have the conditions of eternal life without unity and love, could we?
JT The Lord used F.E.R. in a distinctive way to bring out the great truth of eternal life.
EEH Psalm 2 looks forward to all this: “I will declare the decree: Jehovah hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; I this day have begotten thee”, Psalm 2:7.
JT That is good.
FWK Could something be said of the fulness? “For of his fulness we all have received”; what does the fulness involve?
JT Well, the meaning of the word has to be understood; it would be a spiritual matter, of course, and no doubt refers to the apostles, because they all came into it: “we all”. The Lord gave them grace for apostleship.
ANW Would it refer back to the last few words of verse 14? If we leave out the bracketed section, it reads, “dwelt among us ..., full of grace and truth; ... for of his fulness we all have received, and grace upon grace”.
JT Yes; “For the law was given by Moses: grace and truth subsists” (notice the word ‘subsists’) “through Jesus Christ”. Then it says, “The only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”. I think that is one of the most important verses in John’s gospel.
Ques Does the fulness here refer to what He was in manhood?
JT It is the Person.
Ques That is embodied in the title “the Word”?
JT That is right. “The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”. It was a great matter, and the disciples came into it: “We have contemplated his glory”. And again, “Of his fulness we all have received”.
SCM There is a further word in Colossians 1:18, about the fulness: “And he is the head of the body, the assembly; who is the beginning, firstborn from among the dead, that he might have the first place in all things: for in him all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell”, Colossians 1:18,19.
JT Yes; that is “the fulness of the Godhead” and is a further thought.
RRT The expression “for of his fulness” seems to revert back to verse 14, “full of grace and truth”. Verse 15 is a parenthesis after which it says, “For of his fulness we all have received, and grace upon grace”.
JT Yes, the ‘we’ is emphasised.
JTJr Would not the fulness go beyond the reference to grace and truth? “Of his fulness” would not be limited to grace and truth.
JT Just so.
ANW His fulness must be a greater thought than grace and truth; and, of course, “all the fulness of the Godhead” Colossians 1:18 must be a very [p. 526] great matter.
ABP The fulness of the Godhead was resident in Christ, but here His fulness was imparted to the disciples.
FWK Would this reference to the fulness be linked with the Word and the expression of what was in the mind of God in relation to His purposes?
JT It was a divine Person; no less than a divine Person.
RRT Is it not important to note that it says, “For of his fulness ...”? The apostles had received of His fulness; they had received in part.
EEH Hebrews 1:3 says that the Son is the effulgence of God’s glory and the expression of His substance. It is as Son that He is spoken of thus.
JT Yes; and Ephesians refers to both the fulness of Christ and the fulness of God, but Hebrews very particularly helps in this matter.
CFI Does the expression: “A glory as of an only-begotten with a father”, contemplate what is known in human relationships?
JT Quite so; it does not say the father, but a father; it is that kind of relationship.
CFI Would that imply the intimacy of relationship between the Father and the Son?
JT Just so; it is His glory, it is to make much of the Person of Christ; He is the only-begotten Son and He filled out that relationship uniquely. It says that He is in the bosom of the Father; He has declared Him. He has declared the Father; He and the Father are equal.
ABP Is not the glory of an only-begotten with a father seen in Abraham and Isaac in Genesis 22? Isaac is referred to as “thine only son”. It says, “Take now thy son, thine only son, whom thou lovest, Isaac, and get thee into the land of Moriah, and there offer him up”, Genesis 22:2. What follows shows the glory of the relationship between Isaac and his [p. 527] father.
JT Yes; it is such an one as that, an only-begotten with a father.
Ques Does it bring out the unique place that the Lord Jesus had?
JT Yes.
AP Twice the thought of grace and truth is mentioned in this chapter; does that emphasise a particular feature of the glory?
JT He was full of grace and truth, and grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ. It is the greatness of the Person.
WWM Would there be any connection with what the Lord Jesus said to the Father in chapter 17:22? “And the glory which thou hast given me I have given them”, John 17:22.
JT No doubt there is a link with our place in sonship. His place is unique, but we are brought “into favour in the Beloved”, Ephesians 1:6.
VCL What John witnessed would give him substance and authority as the Spirit helped him to make the glorious statements with which he begins the gospel: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”, John 1:1.
JT What could be greater? “The Word was with God, and the Word was God”!
VCL He acquired this knowledge from the Spirit, but having received of the fulness would fit him to be a suitable vessel to minister it.
AR Would the “we” in verse 16 show that it was the apostles only who received of His fulness?
JT Surely; “We have contemplated his glory”.
JTJr So that what John writes in his epistle about eternal life flows out from this. He speaks of “the eternal life, which was with the Father”, 1 John 1:2.
JT Quite so; John’s writings have [p. 528] a unique place.
JTJr There seems to be a connection, therefore, between the glory “as of an only-begotten with a father” and what is said in the epistle: “That which was from the beginning, ... that which we have seen with our eyes; that which we contemplated”, 1 John 1:1. And then it goes on to speak of “the eternal life, which was with the Father”, 1 John 1:2.
FHL We have a remarkable verse at the end of chapter 3: “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand. He that believes on the Son has life eternal”, John 3:35. Is not that an added touch which the writer brings in?
JT Surely; these touches are peculiar to John, the one whom Jesus loved. One of the greatest distinctions that a man could have is to be loved by Jesus.
AR The apostle also says in his epistle, “The eternal life, which was with the Father, and has been manifested to us: that which we have seen and heard we report to you”, 1 John 1:2,3.
JT I suppose we can see that it was fit and suitable to have John, the one whom Jesus loved, bring all this out; he was conscious of being loved.
RCR Does the impression of the affection between the Father and the Son underlie our enjoyment of eternal life? Does it involve that Christ is the contemplated One?
JT That would enter into it. The Son is greatly honoured in John’s writings, and it is striking that the Father should give that distinction to John.
JTJr You mean that the distinction was given to John to bring out this truth in his gospel and epistles because he had such a place in the affections of the Lord?
JT Yes; he was in the consciousness of being loved by Jesus.
DP Is there a distinction between declaration and revelation?
[p. 529] JT They are somewhat akin, but very near to one another. One involves divine speaking and the other what was seen in Christ.
Rem The relationship between the Father and the Son seems to be the point of attack with the Jews in this gospel.
JT You can understand, therefore, the great concern for the apostles which the Lord had that they should be preserved: “Keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one as we”, John 17:11.
JTJr So that when they stood up together at Pentecost with Peter there were twelve; John was with him.
FWK John has in mind that these things should be continued. He says, in his first epistle, that we might have fellowship with the apostles in the fellowship which they enjoyed; so that what subsists is to be continued; it comes down to our own time. I was thinking of the great privilege which is ours in having part in these glorious things, that which subsists, and the blessedness of divine relationships.
JT I hope that we will think of the privilege that is ours; there is nothing greater than the extensive truth which is set out in this gospel.
VCL Is John impressed with the need of things being in our souls when he says, “He that has the Son has life: he that has not the Son of God has not life”, 1 John 5: 12? It is not just believing, but having the Person.
JT So that we are dealing with great things which were given to the disciple whom Jesus loved. It is very wonderful, and I sometimes think I would like to have been at the beginning of this dispensation to receive thoughts from the disciple whom Jesus loved. They had the greatest things at the beginning, and by the Spirit we have [p. 530] them now.
SCM Was Peter coming into this when he said, “Lord, to whom shall we go?” John 6:68.
JT Quite so; “thou hast words of life eternal”.
WWM “He that has the Son has life”, 1 John 5: 12. We have received it; we have received it in the Holy Spirit.
JT Just so.
ABP Is John used to vitally link the beginning of the dispensation with the end? He seems to gather up everything in the first chapter of his gospel, going right back to, “In the beginning was the Word”, John 1:1 and without Him nothing received being, but the Lord’s word to Peter, about John, is, “If I will that he abide until I come”, John 21:23. Does that not suggest that the vitality of all that John stands for is to be brought through to the end?
JT These are wonderful things; the twelve apostles had to do with their establishment at the beginning and John had to do with it, vitally.
S W. Was not the fulness of which the apostles had received seen in Peter and John when they went up to the temple at the hour of prayer? Peter could say, “Look on us”, Acts 3:4.
JT I have been impressed with that word many times; how important they were!
RCR So it says, “We have contemplated his glory”, and in John’s first epistle, “That which we contemplated, and our hands handled, concerning the word of life”, 1 John 1:1.
JT Let us take these things in, and enjoy them; and God will bless us as we give them our sober and careful thought, especially young people, for it is good to learn how to give quiet consideration to divine things.
FHL Features of manhood shine out in John. At the cross it was the disciple whom Jesus loved [p. 531] who stood by, and it was the disciple whom Jesus loved that Peter saw following in chapter 21.
JT Quite so.
FWK So that contemplating the glory of Christ as Son and receiving grace upon grace would make for spirituality in the saints; spiritual manhood would come to light.
JT Just so.
FWK Would the expression, “The disciple whom Jesus loved”, refer to quality in the disciple, or would it be sovereignty?
JT Well, it would be sovereignty, of course, but I think John must have been lovable.
Ques Is the glory that is conferred on us, according to John 17, arrived at by contemplating His glory?
JT “The glory which thou hast given me I have given them”, John 17:22. That must have something to do with sonship. I wonder if we ever sit up at night and contemplate this wonderful thing.
AR It says that John was on the breast of Jesus at supper. He availed himself of the opportunity to get near the Lord at supper.
JTJr John was in the Lord’s bosom; he was there. It does not say that of the other disciples.
CFE The Lord’s words to Peter, “Follow thou me”, John 21:22 would have the end in view; though addressed to Peter, the teaching would be that we should continue to the end.
JT Yes; we should be concerned that we continue to the end. You are going to do that, are you not?
CFE I trust so; by the Lord’s help.
WWM Peter was enquiring about John, but we are not to be unduly concerned with the other brother; we are to see to ourselves.
JT Very good.
FNW Does not this first chapter enable us to be occupied with the holy relationship between the [p. 532] Father and the Son? The Spirit would hold that available to the saints through the whole history of the assembly, so that it can be sustained in our souls now.
JT I have wondered to what extent Gabriel and the other angels can understand or appreciate this.
FNW Does not the Lord refer to our entering into this in chapter 17? “That the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them” John 17:26.
JT Very beautiful.
Rem John the baptist had to say, in chapter 1: “In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know”, John 1:26. But the initiated do know Him.
JTJr Therefore we know the Lord in the way that He comes in amongst us, now; He comes, in His own way, to the assembly.
JT Just so; and we have been made great enough to understand these things; and at night we can think that we are numbered amongst so distinguished a people.
JTJr You mean that our nights can be profitable for contemplation of Christ?
JT Just so.
ANW It was John, in chapter 21, who discerned that it was the Lord, “That disciple therefore whom Jesus loved says to Peter, It is the Lord”, John 21:7.
JT Just so.
AR Would the Lord’s word about John bear on the rapture or on Christ’s appearing?
JT I would think it is the rapture.
RCR Is John a reserve man, in that way, abiding to see the saints through till the Lord comes?
JT Just so; “If I will that he abide till I come”, John 21:22.