MAN (15)
MAN (15)
JT We scarcely touched on chapter 1 of this book at our reading this afternoon so that one would appeal to the brethren to read it again at home, and ask questions at home too, if necessary; as it says, “The Lord will give thee understanding in all things”, 2 Timothy 2:7. It is to be noted that the chapter before us refers to adjustment of what is unfolded in the first chapter; as is often the case, there is need to go over things in the sense of adjustment, getting the facts well narrated and listed. So that the death of David is mentioned briefly and then Solomon comes forward to do his part; it is his time. Our subject of Man, therefore, is rightly seen in David and Solomon, that is to say in persons who have the place of rule among the people of God.
ABP In a previous reading we referred to Joshua, and we had a transition, as we have here. There it was from Moses to Joshua and I think you emphasised the point as to the man in whom was the Spirit of God. What particular feature of manhood is it here? Is it kingship?
JT Kingship, that is what I would say; “Long live king Solomon” 1 Kings 1:39 is the word. The chapter refers to all that is necessary to place the Lord in the position of serving His people here.
FJF From the Lord’s exalted position?
JT Just so; so it is said in Luke that He was received up in glory.
AR Would that be confirmed in verse 12 of our chapter, “And Solomon sat on the throne of David his father”?
JT So that all that is said of Solomon here is to stress that he was the king.
AR The Lord at the present time is on His Father’s throne, is He [p. 264] not?
JT Yes, the Lord makes much of that line of thought; He said, “My Father is greater than I”, John 14:28. They are equal: the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are equal. However, the Lord was speaking of Himself as having become Man.
ABP He says, “As I also have overcome, and have sat down with my Father in his throne”, Revelation 3:21. That stresses His manhood, does it not?
JT Just so. So that when He was here, it was a question of manhood in responsibility, so to speak. He took that place down here; He went into every circumstance, He omitted nothing of all that was suitable in the position that He had taken.
ANW The Lord wondered at what the centurion saw in Him. He had said, “I also am a man under authority”, Matthew 8:9. And Solomon seems to be acting in this chapter under the charges committed to him.
Ques Does the word in John 5 apply? The Lord says, “For even as the Father has life in himself, so he has given to the Son also to have life in himself, and has given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is Son of man” John 5:26. And earlier in the same chapter it says that the Father judges no one but “has given all judgment to the Son”, John 5:22.
Is there correspondence between those verses and this chapter?
JT Very much, and these are statements that are very remarkable for us to feed upon; because we have in the Scriptures not only what is said in the way of doctrine, but things that we may feed upon. Feeding is a great matter in the divine account; we need to be fed.
FJF Is the spirit of kingship seen in us in standing for the Lord’s rights when He is absent, that He is Lord of all and that we seek to maintain what is due to Him? And is that connected with the Supper, “till he come”? 1 Corinthians 11:[p. 265] 26.
JT Yes, quite. How many things of that kind we get in the Scriptures! And we are to feed on them; the Lord sets the thing before us and we are to follow what He says and make it food.
FHL Will there be Solomonic conditions in the millennium when true manhood will be seen shining out? Here the conflict is largely over and Solomon is reigning in conditions of peace. Will not the Lord shine in that character and reign?
JT Yes; David asserts that Solomon is a wise man. David took the ground that Solomon was a wise man and that he had the qualities to enable him to do things rightly.
JTJr He was not like the Corinthians; Paul has to say to them, “There is not a wise person among you”, 1 Corinthians 6:5. The Corinthians had reached the wrong kind of kingship, for in chapter 4 Paul says, “Ye have reigned without us”, 1 Corinthians 4:8. But do you not think that in the end they came to see where real authority was, and dealt with things accordingly?
JT Oh, I think so; the second epistle really clarifies what may not have been clear in the first epistle.
FNW In that same chapter, 1 Corinthians 6 it says, “Do ye not then know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world is judged by you, are ye unworthy of the smallest judgements?”, 1 Corinthians 6:2. Is the Lord teaching us in the small matters in the local companies the principles of judgment that will operate in the day to come?
JT “Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight” Leviticus 26:8; I mean to say you get that sort of thing by comparison. So that by comparison there is so much more in two than in one. The disciples were sent out two by two by the Lord. It is much safer to go by twos because there is so much that may be said or done [p. 266] that may be inaccurate and therefore there is need of two to compare things.
FJF Was that true with regard to the preaching of the word?
JT Well, I think so; the Lord sent them out by twos and I think it was to bring about accuracy in ministry.
WJS Solomon says in Ecclesiastes, “Two are better than one”, Ecclesiastes 4:9.
JT Just so; it is better under certain circumstances that two go out together, because the inaccuracy in ministry is very great and it is very important that we should have accuracy. There is no other book so accurate as the Scriptures and surely it is because God has designed it, that everything should be accurate.
Rem That seems to be the mind of the Spirit in Acts 13 when He says, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul”, Acts 13:2.
GVD When Paul journeyed it was usually with others; it speaks of “Paul and his company”, Acts 13:13.
JT “Paul and his company”, it is a remarkable thing that it should be so stated.
FJF Ecclesiastes says woe betide the man who, when he falls, has no one with him to lift him up.
JT Yes; and the verse just quoted from Ecclesiastes says, “Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour”, Ecclesiastes 4:9.
FSC The disciples are named by twos in Matthew.
JT That would illustrate, I suppose, what we often say, that the gospel by Matthew is the assembly gospel; Matthew is very accurate in giving facts that are needed in matters that are to be dealt with administratively.
ANW Does the presence of two give balance in authority? Paul writes to Corinth with authority, but links a brother with him each time. Does it [p. 267] give a kind of balance to what we might call the severity of authority?
JT Just so.
AE W. What would you say about David’s expression here in verse 9: “Thou art a wise man and thou shalt know what thou oughtest to do to him”? Although David gave him the facts he left the matters for Solomon to work out.
JT He assumes that Solomon was wiser than himself, I would say.
AEW Have we not been tested in these last few months on the same line? There has been certain ministry, and perhaps we should like to be told in exact words what to do.
JT Well, it would encourage a man if he is setting out things to be told that he is a wise man; it would encourage him to be given to understand that he is worthy to be trusted with such a matter; that he is a wise man.
WTP David tells Solomon about Joab, mentioning certain facts; but later when Solomon speaks of Joab himself he adds to it; he says, “He fell upon two men more righteous and better than he”, bearing out what has just been said that he is a man that can be trusted and knows the facts and can enlarge on things.
CAM The abundant way in which the wisdom of Solomon, who was a son, comes out in the Proverbs would show how right David’s remark was. Do you not think that Proverbs is a book that perhaps we do not read sufficiently?
JT I have thought that many times, because it helps us to be accurate in what is stated.
ANW Does Solomon not show his wisdom in asking for wisdom?
JT Quite so.
AR Does not the book of Proverbs bear upon the present dispensation? The Lord is really on [p. 268] the throne as a Son; He is on the Father’s throne, therefore He is a Son.
JTJr Paul’s prayer for the Colossians was to that end, was it not? He prayed that the saints might be “filled with the full knowledge of his will, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding”, Colossians 1:9. There is an allusion also in that chapter to the Son of the Father’s love; so that evidently Colossians would give a sort of lead into the matter of wisdom, how to be wise men.
CAM Referring to Colossians, is it not interesting that it says of David in this chapter that “he reigned seven years in Hebron”? I think you have stressed that Hebron is a Colossian setting.
JT That is what I would say now. The Son of the Father’s love is a remarkable touch in Colossians.
ANW He has a kingdom, “the kingdom of the Son of his love;” Colossians 1:13 it is such a kingdom!
FHL We see the end of the false king here in Adonijah and the reigning of the true king in Solomon. Is it typical of Christ reigning and all that is false judged and dealt with?
JT Yes, quite! The Father coming in in relation to the Son: “Sit at my right hand, until I put thine enemies as footstool of thy feet”, Psalm 110:1.
JHE What Adonijah says is false: “Thou knowest that the kingdom was mine, and all Israel had set their faces on me that I should reign”; but the kingdom never was his.
EAL Abishag would hardly represent the assembly; she does not come into the full position of being David’s wife. It says of Isaac that Rebecca became his wife and he loved her; but Abishag does not have that place with David, yet Adonijah evidently sought a prominent place by getting her hand. Leaders in christendom claim to have the church, but they do not really [p. 269] have it.
JT There seems to have been more in what Adonijah asked than appears on the surface.
EAL Solomon detects that he was really after the kingdom; it seems a very deep matter.
JT Quite so. Bathsheba was remiss, really; she was a weak person, I would say.
VCL Does it not raise an issue in view of all that the sisters are coming into, so that a note of sobriety is injected? If in chapter 1 she stood in a general sense for what is good, we see here that she lends herself to what is poor. Should we not all be on guard about that?
JT I think the idea in the second chapter is that we might get the full benefit of the truth that comes out in the first chapter.
ABP Does it suggest that there may be matters that occur at the present time that are not adjusted properly, but the judgment seat of Christ will bring them under review?
JT “The judgment seat of Christ”; we must all appear there. Think of the accuracy involved in that!
JTJr Do you not think that in the assembly matters should be resolved? Should not the assembly see that matters are settled now, that things are not left till that day?
JT I think the book of Proverbs works out the truth of the assembly; the last chapter is the feminine side and the woman takes up things. The book of Proverbs works that out.
FNW It says in that last chapter of Proverbs, “The heart of her husband confideth in her”, Proverbs 31:11.
JT I was just thinking of that word: “The heart of her husband confideth in her”. That is how the Lord takes account of the assembly.
FNW And do you think that the knowledge that Christ must reign and put all enemies under His feet underlies that fidelity in the assembly?
JT He must do it; the ‘must’ there is moral. He must reign, everything is to be put under His feet; He will not stop until that is so.
TNW Do you think that as there was offence to the Holy Spirit in the case of Ananias and Sapphira at the beginning, there is perhaps some correspondence when offences occur today, since the Holy Spirit has been given His place in the assembly?
JT Well, the husband and wife became liars. The passage reads “But a certain man, Ananias by name, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, and put aside for himself part of the price, his wife also being privy to it; and having brought a certain part, laid it at the feet of the apostles. But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled thy heart that thou shouldest lie to the Holy Spirit, and put aside for thyself a part of the price of the estate? While it remained did it not remain to thee? and sold, was it not in thine own power? ... Thou hast not lied to men, but to God. And Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and expired. And great fear came upon all who heard it. And the young men, rising up, swathed him for burial, and having carried him out, buried him. And it came to pass about three hours afterwards, that his wife, not knowing what had happened, came in. And Peter answered her, Tell me if ye gave the estate for so much? And she said, Yes, for so much. And Peter said to her, Why is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? Lo, the feet of those that have buried thy husband are at the door, and they shall carry thee out. And she fell down immediately at his feet and expired. And when the young men came in they found her dead; and, having carried her out, they buried her by her husband”, Acts 5:1 - 10. Well now, the word ‘burial’ is attached to these two people; it was an essential thing that they should be buried. They did not only die but they were [p. 271] buried. I believe the idea is that they were truly saints; although they erred they were truly saints. God will have us to understand that these who sinned in the early days of christianity were truly saints and they were saved. So that we should be encouraged in the truth and follow up things so as to have them right before God. The thought of grace is right in the midst of the brethren; but although it is there, there may be death, there may be severe penalty. They are really christians nevertheless; God will establish that they are really christians.
Ques Where would you put men like Joab who is mentioned in our chapter as coming under severe penalty?
JT Oh, he was a politician.
Ques He had dedicated things, had he not?
JT Well, quite so; God would honour that, He honours everything of the kind whatever it may be; at the same time He honours His own work, and even if there be sin attached to it He honours it nevertheless.
FJF Do you mean that Ananias and Sapphira were worthy of burial?
JT I think that is the idea. There is a word in the book of Ecclesiastes that if a man has no burial there is a penalty attached to it. Why should he not have a burial? And why should God attach so much to burial? “If a man beget a hundred sons, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, but his soul be not filled with good, and also he have no burial, I say an untimely birth is better than he”, Ecclesiastes 6:3. It is a most severe matter.
FJF I have noticed at some burials that the coffin is not lowered into the grave until after the brethren have gone away. That is hardly right, [p. 272] is it?
JT It is not the completion of the matter. And cremation is wrong. God intended that man should go into the grave.
CAM Do you not think that Satan makes his last effort in connection with the bodies of the saints, as he did about the body of Moses? It seems to necessitate that a definite stand be taken to have the burials of the saints according to God. Would you say that?
JT I would indeed.
EAL Certain details of burials are becoming regulated by trade union control.
JT That only shows how the unions disregard the commandments of God in small things; they think there is nothing in them whereas there is much, for God is careful to follow up His commandments and one of them is that people should be buried.
GH Abraham said that he would bury his dead out of his sight.
JT Exactly; he was the first one to say that; and it was his own wife. It was remarkable.
HCMcG “Pious men buried Stephen”, Acts 8:2.
JT Very good, pious men; they carried Stephen to his burial.
AR We may need some adjustments in regard to burials; too much may be left to the undertaker, which is wrong.
JTJr The brethren should be free to take charge in the meeting room.
JT Although Abraham’s wife was dead, she was his; she was his dead.
AR So that the Lord would help us to have everything done in a comely way for our dead.
AC In certain countries in Europe the brethren partly fill the grave, based upon the scripture, “Pious men buried Stephen”. They consider that burial has [p. 273] not been completed by merely lowering the coffin into the grave.
DMacd Is it better to have our funeral meetings in our own meeting rooms rather than at the undertaker’s rooms?
JT I would think so, if it can be done. I think it is very much happier that the brethren have the whole matter under their hand. And it is well to call attention to these things.
But now we want to say something about what Adonijah proposed to Bathsheba: “And Adonijah the son of Haggith came to Bathsheba the mother of Solomon. And she said, Comest thou peaceably?”. Now I think we may as well pay attention to this incident because Bathsheba is not just right in it. This man would secure Abishag for his own purposes, and there is no doubt something more underneath that he would have done. Why should he go to so much pains to go to Bathsheba to get this person as his wife? There must be something underneath it; we have to discern what may be underneath. The devil may have something to bring out in some other way than appears.
ANW Solomon saw that it might mean the loss of the kingdom.
JT Just so; he had discernment and it is well that he did have. It shows that sisters are not always so accurate as they might be.
ABP Would there be some suggestion in this in figure, of what we see in the Romish church as to the mother of Jesus being spoken to in prayer?
JT That has come up peculiarly of late, and it is a very dreadful thing that is being said now about the Lord’s mother, a very dreadful thing; we should all be on our guard not to be tainted by what they say about her, that she has gone into heaven bodily. It is a terrible [p. 274] thing.
AP Do we not see in this action the evidence of determined self-will on the part of Adonijah? He admits that it is of Jehovah that Solomon should be on the throne; he says, “Thou knowest that the kingdom was mine, and all Israel had set their faces on me that I should reign; but the kingdom is turned about and is become my brother’s, for it was his from Jehovah”. It was self-will on his part in not accepting fully what Jehovah had done.
DP Is this not a very subtle attack of Adonijah through Bathsheba, aiming at Solomon?
JT Very likely. What motive he had I cannot say; he may have had some other motive that is not apparent.
ANW He is following the serpent’s precedent of approaching the woman to reach the man.
JT Just so.
VCL There are four matters of judgment here, starting with Adonijah, and each one is differently measured according to the sin in each case. Is there not to be this spirit of wisdom today functioning in the assembly, that every matter that comes up is to be judged according to the accurate facts?
JT I would fully go with that.
LW Benaiah seems to be fully with Solomon in this matter; he also has a very interesting history with David. Is there something for us to learn as to manhood in this? It says, “And king Solomon sent by the hand of Benaiah the son of Jehoiada; who fell on him, that he died”. That is in relation to Adonijah. And then verse 29, “And Solomon sent Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, saying, Go, fall on him”; and again in verse 34, “And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada went up and fell upon him, and put him to death; and he was buried in his own house in the wilderness. And the king put Benaiah the son of Jehoiada in his stead over the host”.
JT It is a matter of adjustment in relation to chapter one; the thing has to be gone into fully and dealt with, showing that in assembly affairs things have to be gone into thoroughly to have them right; that we must get all the facts together, bringing out the moral result in each case.
AR Solomon said that Adonijah wanted the kingdom. I was thinking about the place the virgin Mary is said to have as having gone to heaven bodily. I suppose that today Satan wants the kingdom, as Adonijah did. But would the truth about the sisters and their comely place in the assembly counteract this kind of teaching?
JT Well, that is right; we have to watch because Satan is an active opponent; he is one of the fallen angels but we cannot say much about his history; but he is a terrible being.
FJF Do you think that inventions which are current, including television, will be used of Satan in bringing forward the man of sin?
JT I must confess I do not know much about these things; I am afraid to touch them.
WWM There is a verse in chapter 2 that should be an encouragement to everyone: David says to Solomon, “But shew kindness to the sons of Barzillai the Gileadite, and let them be of those that eat at thy table; for so they came up to me when I fled because of Absalom thy brother”. That is not forgotten.
JT Quite so; but how the judgment of God pursues evil in view of its effort to overthrow good!
ABP How can we account for David having a judgment of these men for so long and yet doing nothing to bring about this adjustment?
JT Well, God has certain rights and of course He holds to them. He does not need to give an answer to everything; He holds to His rights. What happened in this case is that He is waiting for [p. 276] Solomon; He is going to use the right man to deal with them; and now God is waiting for Christ.
ABP Would there be an element of grace; giving space for repentance?
JT I think rather that it is moral judgment, God is waiting for the right opportunity; He is attending to matters in His time.
Rem In Numbers 16 Korah, Dathan and Abiram rise up and rebel against Moses. God watches this and takes His own time; and then Moses names it, that they are seeking the priesthood. And then we have the terrible judgment of God in swallowing them up.
JT So the time came, God waited for the time. We cannot overcome God, we may as well accept that. The judgment of God in Revelation is most impressive; how things are dealt with in time. The judgment of God is there.
WWM There is a scripture in Ecclesiastes that bears on this very matter. It says, “Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the children of men is fully set in them to do evil. Though a sinner do evil a hundred times, and prolong his days, yet I know it shall be well with them that fear God, because they fear before him; but it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days as a shadow, because he feareth not before God”, Ecclesiastes 8:11 - 13.
Rem The apostle Paul says, “Do not judge anything before the time, until the Lord shall come, who shall also both bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and shall make manifest the counsels of hearts; and then shall each have his praise from God”, 1 Corinthians 4:5.
JT I think these readings such as we are having this evening are peculiarly advantageous, for they help us to understand Scripture, they give the Scriptures a bearing they would not have [p. 277] otherwise.
SW In the end of our chapter it says, “The kingdom was established in the hand of Solomon”, as though all these persons had to be put down before that could be. Solomon had quit himself like a man in handling these matters and it was after this that the kingdom was established.
FJF If you have knowledge of some evil in the assembly but you have no witness, is it right to bring it forward?
JT I would not attempt it until there is witness.
Rem David says to Solomon, “And thou knowest also”; David and Solomon were witnesses as to this matter.
JT Quite so; David brings the matter forward to Solomon; he wants Solomon to do things. He is saying, as it were, My son is young and I want to give him all the advantage that he can have. That is what David has in his mind, and so it was that Solomon was successful, highly successful.
VCL This period is the day of grace, but nevertheless we are to arrive at a judgment of what is hateful to God, because it says in Revelation that “God has judged your judgment upon her”, Revelation 18:20. In some sense He waits for the saints to arrive at a proper judgment.
JT So it is “your judgment”, it is our judgment; God is leaving it to us to give the evidence.
WTP The Lord said that the darnel and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest. Evidently there was a judgment about it but it was reserved until the Lord’s time. Would that bear on this?
JT It does. God has a right to time, and to dispose of it as He will. He is waiting for the right time to expose certain wicked things; there are many wicked things current in the world which are against God. They are not exposed yet, but God is going [p. 278] to deal with them and He takes His own time to do it.
FNW Does Paul follow that same principle? He says, “Having in readiness to avenge all disobedience when your obedience shall have been fulfilled”, 2 Corinthians 10:6.
JT Very good, “When your obedience shall have been fulfilled”. He waited for the Corinthians. It is very wonderful how God waits for the saints!
ABP Are these circumstances permitted for the approved to come to light?
JT Just so, that the approved may become manifest among you; not only manifest, but among you, that they might be manifest among the Corinthians.
ABP So that Zadok and Benaiah are established as approved, and placed in positions of trust.
ANW And while Joab is not exposed in connection with Absalom, he is exposed in connection with Adonijah.
Rem You have helped us on the scripture in Hebrews 12 that we have come “to God, judge of all”, Hebrews 12:23. That should make us all restful.
JT He is “judge of all”, nothing is to be omitted; in the end, He will see to everything.
ATD It has been said by some that they are content to leave certain things until the judgment seat of Christ; but since we have come to the Judge of all there is no necessity to wait, is there? Things can be settled now.
JT Just so, and how many things we have to settle that way! And how many things there are that are still unsettled!
FJF What does it mean when it says that some men’s sins are ... ..going before to judgment; and with some they follow after?
JT That is an observation that a person would make as he takes account of things. [p. 279] You observe what God does and you can refer to it later.
BFT It speaks in Chronicles of Solomon being a man of rest; but these who were dealt with were not men of rest; they were men of violence.
JT It is very comforting to think that God is God. Whatever happens, God will see to matters; He is all powerful.
RHS Is there any difference between the judgment seat of Christ and the judgment seat of God?
JT Not much; it is only a question of the Persons.
FJF Shall we not be perfect when we stand before the judgment seat of Christ?
JT Surely; what a comforting thought!
JTJr We will be in bodies of glory then.
WWM Barzillai did not go the whole way, but his attitude was right; he was a friend of David. There may be some of that kind that are weak and not able to go the whole distance, yet their attitude is taken account of, is it not?
JT Just so. It is beautiful to see God remembering these dark matters and bringing them where they will be properly dealt with. Solomon is on the throne; and so we may say in our case now, that Solomon is on the throne. Let us therefore be restful. There is Someone to look after things.
JHE These are all test cases, David told Solomon that he was a wise man and would know what to do.
JT Quite so. What a wonderful position God has made for us! And so we ought to be restful and not tossed about with every wind of doctrine; be restful in knowing God, and how faithful He is. “God is faithful” it says, so that we should be restful in all matters that seem impossible.