MAN (33)
MAN (33)
JT I feel encouraged that the Lord will help us in considering this chapter together.
ABP Do you have in mind to bring before us the order of manhood seen in Christ glorified?
JT Quite so.
JTJr Is this the Son of man in His own circumstances?
JT Yes; in His own circumstances. We might link the Son of man more with Luke than with Matthew, but Matthew is the assembly gospel.
ANW Does this incident fulfil what the Lord said in the closing word in chapter 16? “There are some of those standing here that shall not taste of death at all until they shall have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom”, Matthew 16:28.
JT I thought that; and it fits into what is known as the assembly gospel.
JTJr So that coming in His kingdom would involve His assembly. It is introduced in the previous chapter; here it is the kingdom, but the Lord must have had the assembly in mind in relation to it.
CAM The glory of the kingdom will be manifested after the assembly has gone into glory, will it not? The assembly will be with Christ then.
JT Yes; because she is the bride of Christ.
JTJr They had to go up the mountain to see the glory.
JT I just wonder about how we will go up, we will have to do with the clouds; “We ... shall be caught up together with them in the clouds”, 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
CAM It is remarkable that clouds are referred to in connection with the Lord’s coming in glory:
“[p. 514] They shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory”, Matthew 24:30.
JT And again, “Behold, he comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they which have pierced him, and all the tribes of the land shall wail because of him”, Revelation 1:7.
ANW And as to His going into heaven it says, “A cloud received him out of their sight”, Acts 1:9.
JT That is right; “a cloud received him”.
JTJr And it is a bright cloud in our chapter: “A bright cloud overshadowed them” (verse 5).
AR We are told here that Jesus brought the disciples up into a high mountain apart; it is the idea of elevation. I was thinking of this when you were speaking of the assembly going up.
JHE The footnote to verse 5 helps; it says, ‘The cloud covered, without darkening them; it was bright — the excellent glory (2 Peter 1:17)’.
JT That helps.
AR The divine presence was apparently in the cloud, for it says, “And lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight: hear him” (verse 5).
JTJr It involves the Father’s presence, does it not? Peter says, “He received from God the Father honour and glory, such a voice being uttered to him by the excellent glory”, 2 Peter 1:17. It is not so much the physical idea, but that the Father was in it.
JT That is good. Ordinarily, clouds involve moisture, when we think of them physically.
LW Peter links what has been said with “the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ”, 2 Peter 1:16. Would Moses and Elias, seen in glory with the Lord, be typical, in some sense, of the personnel of the assembly? Moses had been buried but Elias had been translated without seeing death.
Rem The cloud in the tabernacle system and in Solomon’s day was connected with the glory of [p. 515] God, which shows that the presence of God is in mind: “The cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of Jehovah filled the tabernacle”, Exodus 40:34.
JT That is good.
AP What have we to understand by His being transfigured? “He was transfigured before them”. Was there a change in the Lord’s body?
LW Would Luke’s account help? It says, “And as he prayed the fashion of his countenance became different and his raiment white and effulgent”, Luke 9:29.
JT The reference to His countenance shows that the Lord had intense feelings as to all this. It was a question of what He would do; they “spoke of his departure”.
VCL Would it raise the question with us as to whether we are ready to be changed when the Lord Jesus comes for us? We all will be changed and be given bodies of glory. The Lord here was ready, and we should be ready for the change that will take place when He comes for us.
JT He was ready, and we glory in it, because it is wonderful that the Lord should be glorified.
EEH What object did the Lord have in taking these disciples up to see His glory?
JT He wanted His disciples to know something of His glory; these were wonderful things.
EEH This was secret, for publicly He was despised and rejected.
JHE Did Peter need this? The Lord had said to him, “Thy mind is not on the things that are of God, but on the things that are of men”, Matthew 16:23.
JT He had said, “Get away behind me, Satan”, Matthew 16:23.
JHE And later in that chapter it says, “The Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels” Matthew 16:27.
[p. 516] Ques Would the word as to His face shining “as the sun”, be a representation of “the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ”, 2 Corinthians 4:6?
JT Yes; as expressed in Christ. We all come into the idea of glory, and I often wonder how we shall share in it; it is wonderful to think that we shall all come into the glory. But then God is to have glory and Christ is to have glory because Christ is representative of God Himself; and, of course, He is God and glory belongs to God.
FHL The Lord selected certain disciples to be with Him on the mount. Would you say that on Lord’s day morning at the Supper we are regarded as selected persons?
JT Yes, I have spoken with Mr. Raven on this very matter, that the saints are glorious. And much has been said in later years about it, too. Every believer is glorious; both brothers and sisters.
Rem God is bringing many sons to glory.
ABP Is there the suggestion of the personal compensation for the Lord in the transfiguration? Is this the Father’s answer to His committal, in the previous chapter: “From that time Jesus began to shew to his disciples that he must go away to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders”, Matthew 16:21.
JT Yes; He was going to suffer. The sufferings and the glory are in mind.
ABP Well, would it be divine consideration for the Lord as Man? Are we to understand that He appreciated the matter of compensation?
JT Very good; we have the transfiguration in Matthew, Mark and Luke, and each has its particular teaching. This is Matthew’s presentation which we are considering now, and it is the leading gospel in regard to the assembly.
JTJr The sufferer becomes the One who reigns.
ANW Peter puts it beautifully in connection with those who were to suffer. He exhorted them to [p. 517] suffer, that the Spirit of glory and of God might rest upon them; the suffering and the glory are very beautifully put together: “If ye are reproached in the name of Christ, blessed are ye; for the Spirit of glory and the Spirit of God rests upon you”, 1 Peter 4:14.
JT I am glad you referred to that; it is a fine expression.
ABP Is there a similar thought in relation to the children of Israel in Exodus 16? As they were about to go into the wilderness the glory appeared to them. “They turned toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of Jehovah appeared in the cloud” Exodus 16:10.
JTJr The glory appears in the wilderness.
ABP Does it not seem that when there is a committal on our part to take on suffering, God comes in with some foretaste of glory? God considers for us in our feelings, and is aware that we need encouragement, so that if we commit ourselves to a path of suffering He will give us a compensating touch of the glory.
Rem In Numbers, Joshua and Caleb suffered but God sustained them through the wilderness and brought them into the land.
JT Very good.
EAL It says, “His face shone as the sun”. The Lord is the source of light and life. In Him was life and the life was the light of men.
JT The sun is the great orb of light in the universe.
VCL Has there been a certain glory here ever since the Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost?
JT Quite so, it is wonderful to think of that.
VCL So that while Christ was unique, the assembly is a vessel of glory even now, is it not?
JT Quite so. That is good, a vessel [p. 518] of glory.
JTJr As to the individual side, which you are stressing, there would be seen in these three men the evidence that the Lord is concerned about each one of us as being suitable for this glory.
JT Think of what we have come into! The Lord is going to take us into the heavens; we will have part in the glory. The assembly, as a vessel of glory, is being prepared for that!
AR So that “we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit”, 2 Corinthians 3:18.
JTJr Do you think that sonship underlies our part in this? As being sons of God now by faith we are made suitable for such a scene of glory as this?
JT I think God has been preparing the saints for this, and for our actual entrance into heaven.
CAM Is that why the enemy, as seen later in the chapter, endeavours to destroy sonship? This son had come under adverse power; he was not in the good of sonship; his father said, “Lord, have mercy on my son” (verse 15).
JTJr And does the end of the chapter bring us into the liberty of sonship as the Lord says, “Then are the sons free” (verse 26)? The great thought of sonship is maintained.
ABP Does Hebrews 1:6 involve our part in sonship glory? It says, “When he brings in the firstborn into the habitable world, he says, And let all God’s angels worship him”, Hebrews 1:6. Does the reference to the firstborn imply the many brethren being brought in?
JT “When the Christ is manifested ... then shall ye also be manifested with him in glory”, Colossians 3:4.
FHL Do we get the glory of sonship on the mountain, but the test comes at the foot of the mountain, where the enemy seeks to destroy [p. 519] the son?
JT It is wonderful that God has brought in the idea of glory in connection with sonship. It is a great matter that we joy in sonship and the thought of being sons of God and sons of the resurrection.
Ques And does this passage raise the question as to what we are able to say in the scene of glory?
JT Very good; it is a matter of what we are able to say. It says of Peter: “Not knowing what he said”, Luke 9:33. But I believe God is helping us to know what to say.
JHE Paul says to the Galatians: “Because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father” Galatians 4:6.
JT I think it is very wonderful that God has ordered for us that we can enjoy sonship at the present time.
AR Do you think it awaited Paul’s ministry to bring in the idea of the sons being free? The Lord mentions it to Peter here but it is Paul who opens up the truth as to it. He tells the Galatians to cast out the maid servant and her son.
JT Quite so, as being sons of God. It is wonderful that we are to be sons of the resurrection.
SW Would you say that we should be at home and comfortable in the presence of the glory? Moses must have been acquainted with it. He set up the tabernacle and when everything was completed, then it says, “The glory of Jehovah filled the tabernacle. And Moses could not enter into the tent of meeting, for the cloud abode on it, and the glory of Jehovah filled the tabernacle”, Exodus 40:35. He was well acquainted with the glory, and here on the mount of transfiguration he would be at ease.
JTJr This is the Lord’s own sphere; His own circumstances.
JT Yes, the Lord’s own sphere, and we are coming into it; brothers and sisters alike are coming [p. 520] into it. I think it is wonderful, and God is helping us to come into these glorious things.
FHL Moses could not enter the tabernacle nor could the priests stand in the temple when the glory came in. But would you say that the sons can stand in the presence of the glory?
JT Yes; the Lord asks the Father “that they may behold my glory”, John 17:24. God has given us that right, we are sons of God. I sometimes wonder how we will get on when we get to glory; God will show to all intelligences in heaven and on earth that the assembly is partaker of the glory.
AEW The disciples fell on their faces on the mount, and further, the father of the lunatic fell on his knees, but does our place in sonship give us the grace to stand as we have part in the service?
Ques When Ezekiel fell upon his face in the presence of the glory of Jehovah, it says that the Spirit set him upon his feet Ezekiel 2:2. Does not the Spirit sustain us in the presence of the glory of God?
JT Quite so; we are sustained.
CFE There is a gracious touch here which the Lord gave to the disciples when they were terrified. It says, in verse 7, “And Jesus coming to them touched them, and said, Rise up, and be not terrified”. I suppose He wanted them to be occupied with Him alone. “They saw no one but Jesus alone”.
JT I believe the brethren are getting into the truth. It is a great matter to be occupied with Jesus alone in glory.
FNW Would you say that those who have served us have been in the enjoyment of sonship? Is it necessarily so?
JT It is important to be preserved in the truth, and I believe that God would keep us going on in it until the end. We belong to the greatest family in the universe — the highest order [p. 521] of man.
JTJr The sons are free, and they should be free of everything that would hinder them in their souls.
AR In the last verse of our chapter the Lord uses the words, “For me and thee”. The Lord joins with Peter in the idea of sonship.
JHE Paul told the Galatians that “God ... was pleased to reveal his Son” Galatians 1:16 in him. What a unique vessel he was!