MAN (22)
MAN (22)
JT The subject of ‘Man’ seems opportune where the persons involved are the apostles because they are the best quality perhaps that could be adduced, next to the Lord Himself.
ABP Why are they listed in twos?
JT I suppose the idea would be to give the full thought of the quality of the persons. “Two are better than one”, Ecclesiastes 4:9 it says, “and a threefold cord is not quickly broken”, Ecclesiastes 4:12.
ABP That is an interesting application of the scripture. Is it not Matthew’s practice to refer to twos, as in chapter 18? “Two of you”, Matthew 18:19 two of the assembly.
CAM I think you have stressed that this matter of two in Matthew is to meet the combinations of men; it is a strengthening of things.
JT Very good, but it is not simply two, but “two of you”; two of the assembly, the best quality that can be selected among men on earth; the Lord Himself has made the selection.
JH The disciples are taking on the features of Christ in this chapter, are they not? They become like Him, like the kind of Man they see.
JT So that we must omit the matter of nationalities and think of the Lord Himself selecting twelve persons; and they were called apostles.
ANW Their closeness to the Lord would be seen in the statement as to the assembly, that it is “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the corner-stone”, Ephesians 2:20.
JT Just so.
AR Matthew says, “Now the names of the twelve apostles are these”: he distinguishes them [p. 367] by emphasising their names. You do not get that in the same way in the other gospels.
JT So with the Lord Himself; His name is greatly emphasised in the Scriptures.
AR Is it not so in this gospel? It says, “Thou shalt call his name Jesus”.
JT “For he shall save his people from their sins”, Matthew 1:21. Wonderful!
FHL There must be an order in which they are mentioned. It is here, “First ... Peter”, as we know, and that is carried right through, but some of the apostles hardly appear again in the inspired record. I am thinking of features of manhood which come out in each one, and how wonderfully they were developed in Peter! I just wondered if features of manhood were to be seen in all the others, though in a more limited way perhaps?
JT The Lord says, “Thou art Peter, and on this rock” — that is the Lord’s own designation — “I will build my assembly, and hades’ gates shall not prevail against it”, Matthew 16:18 Jehovah is frequently called ‘the Rock’ in the Old Testament.
RWS In chapter 5 we have the crowds, and again in chapter 8 the crowds follow Him. But do we come now, in chapter 10, to what is refined and special in view of administration in the assembly? And so, in the Acts we have crowds in the early chapters but then, in the body of the book, we have a Peter and a Paul and a Barnabas and others, as if we were in the realm of specialities.
EAL Are not these men unique? “He gave them power over unclean spirits”. The foot-note says with reference to the word ‘power’ that it is more than authority, it includes the right to exercise power. No one else had the same power, unless perhaps Paul.
JT Paul is really the greatest of all of them, because he was selected by the Lord Himself for the assembly. He had the charge of the assembly. But here it says, “And having called to him his twelve disciples”; that is to be noted. It does not say apostles, but disciples, meaning that they had learnt from Him, they had been taught by Him.
JH Are features of manhood, features of this Man, to be seen in these twelve as they go out?
JT The idea would be that if they were His disciples they would learn from Him; “Learn from me”, He says, “for I am meek and lowly in heart; and ye shall find rest to your souls”, Matthew 11:29.
FNW The twelve appear in the heavenly city in Revelation 21. It says there, “And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb”, Revelation 21:14.
JT Paul is omitted there, his name is not mentioned; that is an important thing. Otherwise he is the leading man amongst all the Lord’s servants.
ABP Later on in that chapter it says that the foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every precious stone, and then it names twelve different precious stones. I wondered if those precious stones might set out in some typical way the features of manhood that were seen in the twelve apostles? It specifically says, “The first foundation, jasper; the second, sapphire”, Revelation 21:19 and so forth.
JT So that they are all included, as it were; the very elect among men are included in the Lord’s selection. It is very wonderful, I think, when we look at each other, as to who we are and what we are entitled to think of ourselves. Every one of us has a name which the Lord has given.
Ques John the apostle says, in his first epistle, “That ye also may have fellowship with us”, 1 John 1:3 which I have understood you to say means that the saints have fellowship with the apostles. How do we come into this matter?
JT Well, we are not amongst the apostles, of course, only that they have been instrumental in [p. 369] our conversion, which is a great matter; they have been instrumental; they were the inaugurators of everything, under the Lord, at the beginning.
ANW “Those who believe on me through their word”, John 17:20.
Ques That is very helpful, and John says “That ye also may have fellowship with us”, 1 John 1:3. Do we have fellowship with the apostles?
JT Certainly, that is just the thought; the apostles have first place, the supreme place, in the ministry.
AR It says in Acts 2 that “they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship”, Acts 2:42.
JHE In the letter to Philadelphia it says, “He that overcomes, him will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more at all out; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven, from my God, and my new name”, Revelation 3:12. That is the idea of renown, is it not? You were stressing the matter of the name, and I suppose that this new name will be characterised by what we are being taught as to the Person of Christ.
JT Just so.
AP Is this power that is spoken of in Matthew 10:1 transmitted to the assembly? We have in Revelation 3 the reference to “a little power”, Revelation 3:8. This special power here was given to the apostles, but now in our day is there to be with us the thought of power?
JT It is “a little”, showing that it is a question of remnant times; it is not very much, but it is power nevertheless, so we must value it accordingly. The Lord has given it to us and we are doing something; we are all doing a little, the sisters too are doing something in the sense of their minds being at work; they are here sympathetically, which is an [p. 370] immense thing; we should not have such a good meeting without them.
Ques Does the power which the disciples had involve that the Spirit of God was available to them in some sense? It says, “And having called to him his twelve disciples, he gave them power over unclean spirits, so that they should cast them out, and heal every disease and every bodily weakness”. In the end of John’s gospel the Lord breathed into them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit”, John 20:22 but here He gave them power. Was the Spirit with them in some sense, although He did not actually come down until Pentecost?
JT He was here in the Lord. “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me”, Isaiah 61:1. The Lord Jesus was indwelt by the Spirit Himself: “I beheld the Spirit descending as a dove from heaven, and it abode upon him”, John 1:32.
ANW They are ‘disciples’ in verse 1, but ‘apostles’, as in power in verse 2. We are one with them in the disciple position but we are not one with them in the apostle position.
JT The word ‘disciples’ means that they learn from Him, come under His influence.
JHE It is wonderful to see how this power works. We have been encouraged through a young sister being prepared to suffer in order that she might break bread. She has power to prevail. Is that not demonstration of the power that we can have as we are dependent upon the Spirit?
JT Just so; she is suffering because she is prepared to act against severe opposition to her coming into fellowship.
Rem In Matthew 28 the Lord said, “All power has been given me”, Matthew 28:18. He commissioned the apostles to go and make disciples of all the nations. Would you say that that power is the same as the power we are speaking of [p. 371] here?
JT Quite so; the Lord alone can speak in that way; all power is given to Him; no one else has that but Himself.
AAT In Luke 4 the Lord spoke with power and authority in connection with the unclean spirits. Would you differentiate between power and authority?
JT Not much; the idea in authority is that someone above you has power to give you power.
ANW There is a note here to the word ‘power’ in verse 1 that helps on that point; it says, ‘More than authority, it includes the right to exercise power’.
ABP Does verse 20 give us the secret of the power? “Ye are not the speakers, but the Spirit of your Father which speaks in you”.
JT That is exactly the thing, the Spirit is the speaker; “Ye are not the speakers”, it is a question of where the Spirit is; the Spirit gives the power, “the Spirit of your Father which speaks in you”. That is very distinct.
BAF Some years back a young sister seeking her place in fellowship was asked if she had the Holy Spirit, which is often asked as a challenge in view of fellowship. She did not know but she said, ‘I feel a change’. Would you say there was something in that sister?
JT She realised a sense of power?
BAF Yes; she felt a change but could not name the cause of it as being the Spirit. Sometimes a person might not be able to recognise the Spirit as such.
JT What did you experience when you came into fellowship?
BAF I felt a change, too.
JT And so did I. That is the thing; God is operating to bring about an effect so that we can [p. 372] be usable.
LW Would it be right to say that we should be just as positively able to say that we have the Spirit as to say that we know that we have forgiveness?
JT Well, just so. The knowledge would come from the fact that you are conscious of the power.
SCM We can say that “we know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren”, 1 John 3:14. That is one of the indications of having the Holy Spirit.
RWS In this chapter there is the call in verse 1, and the charging in verse 5, and then the sending in the same verse. Is there an element of commissioning the disciples in charging them?
JT They are under His influence and teaching, and then the charging would mean that He had put them under orders, as a general would put his men under orders. They will do what He directs.
WWM A similar scripture occurs in the first chapter of Acts. It says there, “It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in his own authority; but ye will receive power, the Holy Spirit having come upon you, and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth”, Acts 1:7,8. That would be in the power of the Holy Spirit.
JT Quite so, it is definitely said so.
AR This charging would suggest that they are under authority, would it not? And the token on a sister’s head suggests that she is under authority.
JT We often use the word ‘commission’ in the sense that the disciples were sent out. They were commissioned to do certain things.
EEH In John 17 the Lord refers to these very disciples as men, given to Him by the Father: “The men whom thou gavest me”, John 17:6. In what way are we to consider these men as being the Father’s? He says, “They were thine, and thou gayest them me” John 17:6.
JT [p. 373] The Father is in authority; the Father is supreme in authority; the Lord is recognizing that His Father is in authority. That is the power that He has. The use of the word ‘men’ is very important, the Lord says “men” to the Father; not women there, but men. Elsewhere sisters are included in the thought of sons, but not here. It says elsewhere that we are all God’s sons by faith in Christ Jesus.
Rem In the Acts it says that the people who heard Peter and John, perceiving that they were unlettered and uninstructed men, wondered, and recognized that they had been with Jesus.
JT That shows how they came under the influence of Christ, and how they were formed by it. The whole matter hinges on that.
Rem That was real manhood.
Ques Are there two thoughts in relation to power, one the power which is given to us as seen in the Spirit, and then, the power which we might acquire ourselves through prayer and fasting?
JT Quite so.
CFE Is the selection of the twelve in view of administration?
JT Surely; they are under the Lord’s orders. “By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves”; John 13:35 not simply love one to another, but have love amongst yourselves, the quality is to be amongst us.
Rem The word to the assembly at Philadelphia says, “Thou hast a little power, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name”, Revelation 3:8. All these features enter into this chapter.
ABP Paul, in 1 Corinthians 16, says, “Be vigilant; stand fast in the faith; quit yourselves like men; be strong. Let all things ye do be done in love”, 1 Corinthians 16:13,14.
JT “Quit yourselves like men” indicates that they have power; a man usually has power, he is [p. 374] the vessel of power as over against woman. The woman is the weaker vessel, but the man has power. I think the Lord means that.
ABP I was struck with your combination of thought in the verse you quoted, “By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves”, John 13:35. The strength of manhood is carried out in love.
JT Just so, in love; it is amongst us, we are to be characterized as having the thing.
SW There is authority in the ministry before there can be power; the apostle Paul had to be commissioned, for instance.
JT But then there is acquired power too, by experience; you exercise yourself and you acquire power.
AAT “These twelve Jesus sent out”; that is, they were commissioned?
JT Yes, “These twelve Jesus sent out when he had charged them”. That means He had put them under authority, under charge, not to go to the nations, “but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel”. The thing is laid out very clearly.
CAM Referring to that sentence, “Go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel”, would that, for us, mean to serve the assembly as the great matter in our minds for service?
JT Well, quite so, or the nations; Paul says, “Lo, we turn to the nations”, Acts 13:46.
AN W. As the gospel closes the commission is, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”, Matthew 28:19. That is different from the word in our chapter, and the rejection and death of the Lord made the difference. Now they are to go out to all the nations. He having been slain, the door is open wide to the nations; the highways [p. 375] and the hedges are now to be searched and persons are to be compelled to come in.
JT It was Paul who said “We turn to the nations”, Acts 13:46.
ANW I am quoting from Matthew 22, where the bondmen are to call the persons invited to the feast and they would not come. Then it says, “Again he sent other bondmen, saying, Say to the persons invited, Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fatted beasts are killed, and all things ready; come to the wedding feast. But they made light of it, and went, one to his own land, and another to his commerce. And the rest, laying hold of his bondmen, ill-treated and slew them. And when the king heard of it he was wroth, and having sent his forces, destroyed those murderers and burned their city. Then he says to his bondmen, The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy; go therefore into the thoroughfares of the highways, and as many as ye shall find invite to the wedding feast”, Matthew 22:4 - 9. I thought that is how we gentiles come in.
JT Now I see what you have in mind.
EAL Referring to Galatians 2:9, Paul says that “James and Cephas and John, who were conspicuous as being pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go to the nations”, Galatians 2:9.
JT That is all very plain and confirming.
AR In Acts 28 Paul says, “Be it known to you therefore, that this salvation of God has been sent to the nations; they also will hear it”, Acts 28:28.
JT Quite so, and they have heard it.
RWS Does the allusion in the early part of this chapter to entering into a house and saluting it, and then if it is not worthy leaving the house and the city and shaking off the dust from the feet, imply that we are to know what to do in local matters?
[p. 376] Does manhood operate through our being called and charged and sent, especially in relation to a locality? The thought of the city comes into this chapter so much.
JT We have to decide what we should do. We do not go out now as we used to do years ago to China and other places; we seek to go on quietly with the truth amongst ourselves, keeping away from pretension.
RWS And there is a little power in what is being done.
JT The Lord’s addresses to the assemblies show what there is now; there is a little power, not what there was at the beginning, but a little; and of course we have to be content with that.
RWS Should we be content with a little power and not seek more power?
JT I think we should be content with what has happened since the revival of the truth. Many years ago there was more opportunity to go out to the nations but we do not do it now; we feel that God has restricted us governmentally. So we are to be content with what He has given us.
CFE Do you think that the little power is connected with the little flock?
JT That is just what it is.
JH The power has not diminished, has it? Is it not the same power?
JT The conditions have diminished; we are but a few here; we should have thousands. There are eight million people in this city and we are but a few, but God has added to us — a change has come about.
FHL I think you have linked the “little power” of Philadelphia with the “two or three” of Matthew 18, and the authority is delegated to the assembly even if only two or three are available.
[p. 377] JT The assembly remains here and the Spirit of God remains here; therefore we have authority to go on as we are doing.
AR So that it is right to stress local responsibility?
JT Very good.
CAM There is a verse in Galatians that reads “As many as shall walk by this rule, peace upon them and mercy, and upon the Israel of God”, Galatians 6:16.
JT That is beautiful, the Israel of God; think of the magnitude of that; and yet it may be only a few. “Peace upon them and mercy, and upon the Israel of God”, it is beautiful!
AP What is meant by local responsibility when we have nine meetings in the city; is it citywise, as to the assembly in this city?
JT Well, we do not go to New Jersey to take up matters; we embrace the different meetings here in different sections of the city.
AEW Does the dignity of the men come out in the places they select? It is not just any house or any city that will do, but there is selection as to the cities and the houses. Does that bring out that these disciples are men of worth? “But into whatsoever city or village ye enter, inquire who in it is worthy”.
JT It is good that you brought that up.
Ques What is meant by “the Israel of God”? Galatians 6:16 Well, it is a beautiful thought, it is a marvellous thought though applied to a few people relatively.
FHL Exodus 1 starts, “And these are the names of the sons of Israel”, Exodus 1:1.
WTP The name Israel means prince.
JT Yes; Jacob got that name in Genesis 32.
RWS Can we have more as to ‘not any house’ or ‘not any city?’ We have to inquire if persons [p. 378] are worthy.
WWM I understand that when the truth was being recovered, Mr. Darby, upon coming into a village, would look up christians in that village; his object would be to help them. That would be the idea here, do you think? “And if the house indeed be worthy, let your peace come upon it; but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you”. If there was disorder in that house you could not do very much there, you would leave it.
JT The Lord asserts His own rights in what He is saying. Certain houses and persons are blessed and others are not.
SCM Is that seen with Paul and Lydia? She says, “If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and abide there”, Acts 16:15.
JT Just so. That is a very good reference.
AR It also says in that chapter: “And we were staying in that city certain days”, Acts 16:12 as if they had gone there deliberately, guided by the Spirit.
Ques Would we do that today? That would be in the character of missionary work, would it not, to leave one city for another, looking up christians? Would we go from city to city in the present day?
JT We have done it at times.
Ques How do you distinguish between that and what you have said as to missionary work?
JT As to missionary work, I think it is largely dead; with the revival it largely disappeared. Following the Reformation it was in full force, but not in the revival. It has been greatly reduced since the revival.
Ques So that you would distinguish between going from city to city in this country, for instance, and going to other or heathen countries?
JT Yes; we do not go to other countries, such as Russia or China. I would not encourage that at all. Some years ago it was tried; we went to China where there appeared to be an extensive work; but [p. 379] it has gone to nothing. There was no result from it. We should be careful in undertaking such a matter, we know from experience that there is not much to be had in heathen countries now.
EAL Is the distinction between the so-called Reformation and the revival, that the former gave way to clericalism; whereas in the revival clericalism was set aside?
JT And reduction came in; it is a smaller matter; China is a big affair. There are something like five hundred million people there.
DMacd Then would you encourage us to go to neighbouring cities?
JT Well, in the sense in which we are speaking of it, but there is very little time. We do the best we can, no doubt, but there is very little time.
AR Would you say a word as to the righteous man in verse 41: “He that receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man, shall receive a righteous man’s reward”. The thought of a righteous man is peculiar to Matthew’s gospel. Is it the characteristic of an assembly man that he is a righteous man?
JT It is; and I think we ought to look now at these particular persons that are mentioned here to see whether we correspond with them. It is a question of each one of us being a righteous man, for example; the question is whether we are these things. God would honour us in what He is saying here; the honour is within our reach.
JH Would these be features of manhood?
JT That is just what they are. Verse 40 says, “He that receives you receives me, and he that receives me receives him that sent me”; that is God, it is God that sent Him. Then, “He that receives a prophet in the name of a prophet” — that is such a one as John the baptist, or anyone that is a prophet — “shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man, shall receive a righteous man’s reward”.
[p. 380] I think we had better fix our attention on the thought of a ‘righteous man’, that is the thing to be emphasized; that is always within our range, we may be righteous men. And of course that would mean the sisters as well.
JH So that the features of manhood, seen in Christ, were taken on by these men and have come down to our day.
JT That is the idea, they have come down from Christ through others.
JHE Paul, when speaking to the elders of Ephesus, says that he held back nothing that was profitable, “So as not to announce it to you ... publicly and in every house, testifying to both Jews and Greeks repentance towards God, and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ”, Acts 20:21. That is open for us now?
JT Just so, an example that we can follow.
GH And then, as to the righteous man, Pilate’s wife said to him, “Have thou nothing to do with that righteous man”, Matthew 27:19.
Rem The woman of Shunem received a prophet’s reward, receiving a prophet in the name of a prophet.
JT That is how it works out.
Rem It is also helpful to see what it says in James, that “the fervent supplication of the righteous man has much power”, James 5:16.
JT Very good, ‘the righteous man’, I think we would do well to stop at that point. Let us see, each one of us, that we are righteous men, because it is of great importance, and it includes sisters too.
WWM The woman in John 4 got a prophet’s reward; she says, “I see that thou art a prophet”, John 4:19.
JT A very good example.